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  1. #21
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    Re: Small amount of blood after defecating

    Quote Originally Posted by Erie_herps View Post
    What temperature is your freezer, most are 0*F so they likely wouldn't survive. However if your freezer is a higher temperature it is a possibility.
    Just checked and yeah, it is around 1*F so it looks like I can get rid of that theory. Thanks for the info.
    0.1 Speckled Kingsnake

  2. #22
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    Re: Small amount of blood after defecating

    Quote Originally Posted by aurum View Post
    I'm still in the middle of correspondence with my vet. They do think this is abnormal, but we haven't come to any conclusions yet. In the meantime I'm trying to think of how she contracted pinworms in the first place. I'd like to think I've been pretty on top of hygiene for her because although I don't keep in the most sterile set up, I spot clean daily, change her water almost daily, scrub out the water bowl around every two weeks, change the substrate and disinfect everything with clorhexidine roughly every 2-3 months, and anything from outside that I've put in her tank has been scrubbed and baked. The only other thing I can think of is through her feeders, which I originally didn't consider since they're all frozen, but apparently pinworm eggs have been known to survive at 18*F, so I'm not going to rule that out completely. Any thoughts?
    How long have you had this snake? I believe she most likely had them already when she came to you. Snakes are stoic & not everyone is an observant keeper- children can easily pass along pinworms to pets or vice versa, & snakes can have worms for a long time if no one is paying any attention or thinks that the minor symptoms are "normal".
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

  3. #23
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    Re: Small amount of blood after defecating

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    How long have you had this snake? I believe she most likely had them already when she came to you. Snakes are stoic & not everyone is an observant keeper- children can easily pass along pinworms to pets or vice versa, & snakes can have worms for a long time if no one is paying any attention or thinks that the minor symptoms are "normal".
    I've had her for a little over a year and a half now and she was only a couple months old when I got her. I never noticed any of the blood until recently and I am pretty observant of her. What are the other minor symptoms I could have missed though?
    0.1 Speckled Kingsnake

  4. #24
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    Re: Small amount of blood after defecating

    Quote Originally Posted by aurum View Post
    I've had her for a little over a year and a half now and she was only a couple months old when I got her. I never noticed any of the blood until recently and I am pretty observant of her. What are the other minor symptoms I could have missed though?
    The first "thing" would be general "unwellness"- a vague sense that something's not right & underweight compared to her intake of food; my guess is that if she's had them this long, that may be why you're still seeing what the vet considers to be abnormal stool. Snakes are stoic & king snakes are typically such voracious eaters, there was probably nothing else you could have seen until you noticed the blood in her stool. (As in the list below, I'm quite sure you'd have noticed, so don't beat yourself up.)

    Has she ever been fed live or fresh-killed prey? That could have been the source. Frozen prey seems very unlikely.

    Quick general search from "Dr. Google":
    Among reptiles, the most common infections are roundworms (including ascarids), hookworms and pinworms.
    ...
    Reptiles with intestinal parasites frequently have the following symptoms:


    • Poor appetite.
    • Weight loss.
    • Vomiting or regurgitation.
    • Abnormal appearing stools.
    • Diarrhea.

    Last edited by Bogertophis; 05-03-2021 at 01:27 PM.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  6. #25
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    Re: Small amount of blood after defecating

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    The first "thing" would be general "unwellness"- a vague sense that something's not right & underweight compared to her intake of food; my guess is that if she's had them this long, that may be why you're still seeing what the vet considers to be abnormal stool. Snakes are stoic & king snakes are typically such voracious eaters, there was probably nothing else you could have seen until you noticed the blood in her stool. (As in the list below, I'm quite sure you'd have noticed, so don't beat yourself up.) Has she ever been fed live or fresh-killed prey? That could have been the source.

    Quick general search from "Dr. Google":
    Among reptiles, the most common infections are roundworms (including ascarids), hookworms and pinworms.
    ...
    Reptiles with intestinal parasites frequently have the following symptoms:


    • Poor appetite.
    • Weight loss.
    • Vomiting or regurgitation.
    • Abnormal appearing stools.
    • Diarrhea.

    Just for clarification, this abnormal waste only showed up after giving medication, and I have never seen anything like it from her before. Or were you saying that having parasites for so long would have caused a reaction like this to medication?

    She has never seemed "unwell" to me. Even now when I know she's internally sick, she's very bright and responsive, and when the vet gave her an exam they said everything looked in really good shape externally. With weight, her body condition and growth rate has also always appeared fine to me but I don't have a lot of experience especially with normal growth rate. If it helps: she was about 10g and 1ft at a couple months old, and she is about 200g and 3ft now at a year and a half.
    It's possible that her breeder fed her live pinkies at some point, but I don't know that for sure and she has only ever eaten f/t with me.

    Also, my vet responded, and the plan is to do another fecal to see how much the first dose helped reduce the parasite load. They don't really want to give her a second dose since she had such an abnormal reaction to it, so I guess this test would see if that would be necessary or not.
    0.1 Speckled Kingsnake

  7. #26
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    Re: Small amount of blood after defecating

    Quote Originally Posted by aurum View Post
    Just for clarification, this abnormal waste only showed up after giving medication, and I have never seen anything like it from her before. Or were you saying that having parasites for so long would have caused a reaction like this to medication?

    She has never seemed "unwell" to me. Even now when I know she's internally sick, she's very bright and responsive, and when the vet gave her an exam they said everything looked in really good shape externally. With weight, her body condition and growth rate has also always appeared fine to me but I don't have a lot of experience especially with normal growth rate. If it helps: she was about 10g and 1ft at a couple months old, and she is about 200g and 3ft now at a year and a half.
    It's possible that her breeder fed her live pinkies at some point, but I don't know that for sure and she has only ever eaten f/t with me.

    Also, my vet responded, and the plan is to do another fecal to see how much the first dose helped reduce the parasite load. They don't really want to give her a second dose since she had such an abnormal reaction to it, so I guess this test would see if that would be necessary or not.
    You've got the right vet, sounds like to me. And no, I didn't mean it was a reaction to the medication at all: worms can do some damage, & my thought was that some tissue was sloughed off from the medication, not just worms being expelled. But from your description, I suspect she'll be fine. Her growth sounds normal to me. And I can tell you that in the wild, these (speckled king snakes) are almost always heavily-parasitized, & yet they survive.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  9. #27
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    Some not great updates: I started hearing whistley breathing from her today. I checked inside her mouth and there's no excess saliva or inflammation as far as I can tell, and she was quiet when I held her up to my ear. It seems like she only whistles when exerting herself or just breathing out a little harder. I thought it might be shed inside the nostrils, but considering she isn't at full health right now I'm much more concerned. I let my vet know right away, and I'll see if they want to examine her again.
    She also passed waste again. I'm very glad that the frequency has gone down, but this one still looked weird. More like actual stool than any of the others, but way too pale and mucous-y.
    She did accept food today though, and like I've said before her behavior seems normal. I'm just so worried about her...I really want her to be okay.
    0.1 Speckled Kingsnake

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  11. #28
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    I don't blame you one bit for wanting her to be 100% healthy as fast as possible (& so do I-), but unfortunately, it may take a little while for her body to make repairs & get back to normal. The mucus & appearance of the stool is a tip-off- just keep your vet informed & see what they say. Poor little snake has been thru a lot.
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 05-04-2021 at 09:48 PM.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  13. #29
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    Re: Small amount of blood after defecating

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    How long have you had this snake? I believe she most likely had them already when she came to you. Snakes are stoic & not everyone is an observant keeper- children can easily pass along pinworms to pets or vice versa, & snakes can have worms for a long time if no one is paying any attention or thinks that the minor symptoms are "normal".
    By the way, just to be clear, when I said "not everyone is an observant keeper", I wasn't referring to you- I meant whomever you got this snake from.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  15. #30
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    Hooray! After this week's meal (no panacur) she gave me a very normal stool, no blood even, after a normal amount of time digesting. I still have a lot to figure out with her treatment and everything, but I am taking this as a good thing.
    0.1 Speckled Kingsnake

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    Bogertophis (05-07-2021),dakski (05-07-2021)

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