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  1. #1
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    Opinions on experience with a breeder

    I'm new to breeding & buying so I wanted some opinions as I have only communicated with 4 different breeders now but feel I have gotten a decent sense if the highs and lows of quality.
    Now again I express that I am green and am still learning so if anybody thinks I was stupid and asked for this experience myself, please remember I am learning and feel like a read an eye opening novel on life.

    Alright so basically I bought 2 balls from this one particular breeder & both were different ages and weights than they were listed. The breeder also had several listed that once inquired was told to order from their site in order to find they were sold already but the breeder couldn't be bothered to update their morphmarket ads. I understand that to plenty this is a hobby, not a day job, but I intend to have an impeccable standard for how I will run my own business & find that a bit lazy. Anyway, nothing other than age and weight seems to be off, or at least I am seriously hoping for the 2 I bought. Both animals appear healthy and are the sex indicated so I hope the genes are accurate as well. Now the ones in question were a male that I was told was a juvenile weighing 325g, but after purchasing I asked for the hatch date and he is actually almost 3yrs old, further he weighs 780g. Now I'm not complaining that I have a male practically ready to breed with morphs I want, but was thrown off on this. What made things worse to me though is the female I bought. She was listed as a juvenile as well but is about to be 2yrs old, she was listed as being 235g but is in fact 387g. Now I understand that weight can vary significantly, but it made me ask if she was a good feeder, the breeder says she is, but also said that they prefer to feed bi-weekly for the animals they intend to sell because it makes the transition to the customers easier as the animal will be more willing to eat. I don't now of this is an acceptable practice, like how I had to learn about the acceptability of inbreeding, so I wanted to inquire with those that have plenty of experience. I don't intend to come across as complaining, as long as both remain healthy and become proven breeders of their morphs I will be perfectly happy, but my issue is whether I am being uptight about the breeder. I know I could have 21 questioned them for all the most recent info as I have learned and sadly will do to all future breeders I purchase from.

    Thank y'all kindly for reading and your opinions are greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
    BPnet Lifer rlditmars's Avatar
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    Re: Opinions on experience with a breeder

    What you're experiencing is not that uncommon. You have to remember that while this was born out of a hobby, and remains a hobby for many, it is actually an industry. Like any industry, maximizing profits is the first order of business. Updating ads is labor intensive and takes away from the matter of producing. There are some breeders who at any given time have hundreds and even over a thousand animals available on sites. To keep a 1,000 plus ads up to date would be a full time job for more than 1 person and would incur costs that don't provide a return.

    Another, not an uncommon practice, is underfeeding. The benefits here are two fold. First is the obvious which is it reduces the amount of feed prey needed per week which is pure cost savings. While it retards growth, the only outward appearance of that is, the correlation of size to age and maybe color. Other than that the animal seems healthy. We have all been around long enough to see what is average. We would expect to see 1 year old animals at about 700 grams, 2 year old animals at about 1200 grams, and 3 year old animals between 1500 and 2000 grams. So when you see a 3 year old snake under 500 grams, you have to wonder why and what is the long term effects of the undernourishment. I went to purchase a snake that was hatched in June and posted in July at 67 grams. When I went to purchase it in February, I asked for an updated pic and weight. The pic he provided was a fairly colorless animal, which is indicative of a snake suffering from malnourishment. The picture in the ad showed a vibrantly colored animal. The second thing is it was only 80 grams. When I questioned them, they said the posted date was incorrect. Not possible. That is controlled by the site and is auto populated when the ad is created. Since he hadn't made a mistake weighing it, the snake had only put on 13 grams in 7 months, which is the equivalent weight of 1 rat fuzzy. I did not buy it. Miraculously the weight was updated to 167 grams a week later which again is not possible if the weight was correct that he gave me, so I reported the discrepancy to the site. Nothing came of it, so make of that what you will.

    As I said there are two benefits to underfeeding. The second is that this industry is a race. A race to get out the newest and best, sooner than everyone else, so as to capitalize on a gene while it is hot. As we have seen, this is an industry of diminishing returns. The more of any combo produced, the more availability, and consequently the less value. Simple put, supply and demand. Now if an industry breeder grows their animals to be sold at the same rate of growth as those they are trying to use to produce, then they are essentially growing up the competition. This means they are cutting into their own future profits, as prices for a particular morph will fall sooner.

    Going forward, you'll have to decide what is right for you. Depending on what that is, you will make choices.

    I know I will likely get torched for this as it is not putting everything in the prettiest light. But that doesn't make it not true.
    Last edited by rlditmars; 04-04-2021 at 08:30 AM.

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  4. #3
    BPnet Senior Member dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Opinions on experience with a breeder

    I agree, not uncommon across the board.

    I try to buy from small, but reputable breeders, who know their animals well and have a good reputation. I've had good experiences, and in many cases, have met both the animal and the breeder prior to purchase.

    It is a business and there's no way around that. However, some do a better job of others with both their animals and knowing their animals, and communication with customers. Trying to find a balance can be tough.

    It might just be me, but I also try to buy most of my animals from breeders specific to that type of animal. That can help as well.

    I have bought two animals from BHB, back in the day, but wouldn't today because I think BHB has gotten too big and is doing too much. I have nothing bad to say, but in the future, would likely not buy from them again.

    When I bought my Hypo-Lavender Corn from them, Figment, 7 years ago +/-, I spoke to Brian directly and he talked me through what morphs he liked and down to the particular animal I bought. We spent 20 minutes on the phone and emailed back and forth a bit. All for a $75 snake. Same with Frank, my BTS, I spoke to Lori directly before getting him and she helped me pick out a calm and beautiful BTS. That was 4+ years ago. Both have been happy and healthy continue to do well.

    However, buying from smaller, more focused breeders, has been great for me, and I recommend it to you on a go forward basis.

    I prefer breeders who will spend time with me, answer questions, etc. I think you are also more likely to get accurate genetics, weights, food type, etc. from a breeder like that.

    The latter - the genetics - are crucial if you want to breed. For me, keeping as pets, I care more about the health of the animal than the genetics, but genetics are important too.

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  6. #4
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    Re: Opinions on experience with a breeder

    Dakski, thank you again for your valuable input! I definitely intend to work more with smaller breeders myself after this. The other 2 breeders were smaller based & were wonderful, great communication & seem to really know the animals they have. I feel the need to practically interrogate anyone I buy from now sadly, and anyone who goes along with all my questions fine is going to be someone I want to buy from.

    rlditmars thank you! Yes I understand that it's a business & some are more in it for that aspect as opposed to it being a hobby they enjoy & make an effort in. Would be nice if everyone took in consideration of the animals themselves instead of looking at them as dollar signs but I guess that is why like Dakski suggested, we focus on working more with the small timers that do this for love of the animals. It's a major networking type hobby & for those that aren't very communicative & honest they will eventually lose out to those that have those traits at the opposite extreme. I have decided not to do business with this particular breeder again so I can focus on supporting those that deserve it and may support me in kind in the future once I am able to produce.

    Thank you both for your opinions on the matter, I am very grateful! Take care!

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