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  1. #21
    Registered User WrongPython's Avatar
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    Re: Boa Health Declining Quickly- Advice Needed

    I'm so sorry, OP.

    As mentioned earlier, snakes are very stoic creatures. They'll hide any sort of illness until they can't anymore. It makes it a bit difficult to notice when things are just starting to go wrong, particularly if you're new to snakes. Please don't feel guilty about what's happened. You've done very good by your boa and gave him a few months of high-quality life. If you were sold a boa that was a silent carrier of disease or defect -- knowingly or unknowingly -- the fault doesn't lie with you. I hope this doesn't dissuade you from keeping reptiles in the future -- you seem like a very good new keeper, and you boa seemed to be doing well before all of this happened.

    It may be possible to arrange for a necropsy through a vet if you'd like some proper answers. The stress of regurgitation is probably what brought things to an end, but if any disease was at play, it may still be possible to test for it via necropsy. Store you boa's body in a refrigerator if you think this is something you'd like to do.

    My inbox is open if you'd like to chat or vent.
    0.1 Sonoran Boa sigma​: "Adelita" ('19 Hypo het. leopard)
    1.0 Boa imperator longicauda: "Kuzco" ('19 het. anery)
    0.1 West Papuan Morelia spilota​: "Pandora" ('20)

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  3. #22
    Registered User WrongPython's Avatar
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    Re: Boa Health Declining Quickly- Advice Needed

    I messaged Allison Theus today regarding post-IBD clean-up, and she passed along some information that's very useful:
    • The virus that causes IBD has a half-life of only eight hours and becomes inactive after a couple of days.
    • The virus is susceptible to F10, clorihex, and bleach. Her procedure for moving snakes into previously occupied tubs is to clean the tubs with F10, wipe the tubs down with a Clorox wipe, and then let the tub sit for a week before moving anything in.
    • The virus is transmitted via blood and bodily fluids, so cross-contamination is not as much of a worry. That said, she doesn't scrub water bowls with the same sponge and uses disposable gloves between snakes when cleaning as a precaution.

    I hope this is helpful, OP. You should be able to clean and reuse your enclosure and life support (ie. heaters), but I'd recommend throwing out anything that can't be sterilized (ie. wood, substrate, etc.). A good cleaning of the room your boa was in should be enough to remove any lingering viral particles as well. In the event you find and fall in love with a new reptile, you don't necessarily need to wait a year for the virus to clear out.

    I would recommend notifying the pet store as Bogertophis suggested. Furthermore, I wouldn't recommend going back there for any reptiles in the future if you decide to go that route. There's a good chance they'll still be using the same supplier. If you're interested in pursuing boas in the future, I can recommend a few breeders who do test and clear their boas for IBD (Allison being one of them).

    Again, I'm sorry for your loss. You didn't deserve this.
    0.1 Sonoran Boa sigma​: "Adelita" ('19 Hypo het. leopard)
    1.0 Boa imperator longicauda: "Kuzco" ('19 het. anery)
    0.1 West Papuan Morelia spilota​: "Pandora" ('20)

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  5. #23
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    WrongPython, thanks so much for the updated info on post-IBD clean-up! I stand corrected, it's been a while since I read up on it, & I should have known there'd be better information by now. It's a horrible way to lose a pet- very discouraging for anyone- but at least if someone wants to try again, the old advice no longer applies.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  7. #24
    Registered User WrongPython's Avatar
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    Re: Boa Health Declining Quickly- Advice Needed

    You can thank Allison for the information -- I'm just the one that's sharing it here.

    A lot of the information I share regarding IBD more or less comes from her. Most of the stuff regarding IBD you see on the internet is either something Allison's shared, old and out-of-date, a clinical journal article, or some YouTube video just pays lip service to it. It's a serious, unfortunately fairly prevalent disease that the boa hobby needs to take more seriously, but I think the dearth of information out there speaks for itself. It would be nice to see a push within the boa sphere to tackle and understand IBD like the Morelia sphere's doing with Nido. A few people have tried to start such a conversation (again, Allison), but it just hasn't been taken up yet.

    ...I should probably get on that sticky for IBD I said I'd do a while back.
    Last edited by WrongPython; 04-03-2021 at 08:34 PM.
    0.1 Sonoran Boa sigma​: "Adelita" ('19 Hypo het. leopard)
    1.0 Boa imperator longicauda: "Kuzco" ('19 het. anery)
    0.1 West Papuan Morelia spilota​: "Pandora" ('20)

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  9. #25
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    Thank you for your kind words, and the updated IBD info. I'm going to order the F10 so that I can clean out my enclosure. At the moment, I don't know whether or not I will be looking to find another pet. Possibly. However, I would appreciate the name of some more reputable breeders or places to look for snakes. I have wanted a snake for over a decade, and although I am very sad today, I know that I will want another snake eventually. If I do, I will let you all know.

    Due to the difficulty of even finding an experienced reptile vet near me, the decision was made to give him a "viking funeral", as befitting his name- Odin. I won't lie, my eyes are hurting and I'm exhausted from crying. Part of me wants to take a long break from pets. The other part of me wants to start looking immediately. Logically, I know the best course of action is to wait, but the heart wants what it wants I suppose. I think I'm leaning more towards taking a break at the moment though.

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  11. #26
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Knowing that you've wanted a pet snake for over 10 years tells me that sooner or later, you'll be ready to try again. I hope so. It's not unusual at all to out-live our pets, & while that's sad, it's just horrible to lose one so young as Odin was, & with no way to really help him. When you're ready & know what you want, there are many here who can give you good references for where to look. Meanwhile, we're all sorry for your loss- believe me, most of us know how you feel.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  13. #27
    BPnet Senior Member dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Boa Health Declining Quickly- Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by OatBoii View Post
    Thank you for your kind words, and the updated IBD info. I'm going to order the F10 so that I can clean out my enclosure. At the moment, I don't know whether or not I will be looking to find another pet. Possibly. However, I would appreciate the name of some more reputable breeders or places to look for snakes. I have wanted a snake for over a decade, and although I am very sad today, I know that I will want another snake eventually. If I do, I will let you all know.

    Due to the difficulty of even finding an experienced reptile vet near me, the decision was made to give him a "viking funeral", as befitting his name- Odin. I won't lie, my eyes are hurting and I'm exhausted from crying. Part of me wants to take a long break from pets. The other part of me wants to start looking immediately. Logically, I know the best course of action is to wait, but the heart wants what it wants I suppose. I think I'm leaning more towards taking a break at the moment though.
    First, it always hurts to lose a pet. I am really sorry. I agree with others and that it sounds like you got a sick animal. It doesn't sound like this was your fault at all. Please do not blame yourself. Give it some time and see what you want to do.

    I can recommend 3 breeders, two of whom I've gotten Boas from.

    1. Jeff Ronne/The Boaphile.

    He's been doing it forever and builds cages as well (that's how I know him - I have 12 of his cages). Has some amazing BI morphs - from mild to wild and inexpensive to expensive. Good guy and great animals.

    2. Tommy Carpenter (TC Reptiles).

    He specializes in locality boas. I got my Dwarf BC, Feliz, from him. Good guy, reasonable prices, and his animals are amazing - if you are looking for as nature intended (not a morph), look no further.

    3. Boakings. I got both my BI's from Gil at Boakings. He's a small breeder and knows his animals very well. He hand picked my female Ghost BI, Behira, for me (she was my first Boa) because of her temperament and she was established (1+ years old) etc. Then I bought Jeff, my VPI T+ Sunglow Jungle Motley from him. He's based in NY and I live in CT, so I got to meet both animals at shows before taking them home.

    I listed them in no particular order and recommend all 3 because of direct experience. There are other breeders that I've heard are excellent as well, but this should cover the gamut. You have a great locale breeder and two great BI morph breeders.

    Feel free to PM if you want to get in touch with any of the breeders listed, or have questions about them.

    I hope you get some closure and if you want another Boa, keep us posted, and Good Luck!

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  15. #28
    Registered User Caitlin's Avatar
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    This is a heartbreaking situation. You have been in my thoughts, though I followed this thread quietly because your information needs were being well met and I didn't want to add to everything you were already struggling to process.

    I've kept snakes all my life and worked as a vet tech in exotics practices, and I have to say that as sad as your loss has been, I so much hope you will decide to get another snake. For someone who appreciates them as you do, they can bring a whole world of enjoyment, learning, and even companionship. While illness and premature losses may sometimes happen with any pet, I believe with all my heart that they are more than worth the pain.

    I can recommend one more breeder should you decide you are interested - and that is Michael Beach of Woodcliff Herps. I got my pair of Tarahumara Mountain Boas from him, and can attest to the fact that he is an ethical and communicative breeder who's been in the business for a few decades now. He specializes in the smaller locality Boas (no morphs), including the true dwarf species like my lovely Tarahumara pair. I'll copy his list below of planned pairings for this year, though of course there is no way to know whether they'll actually produce this year or not. If you do contact him, you'll find he is responsive and very interested in making sure that his snakes are cared for properly.

    Boas
    1.1 Hog Island (Sears x Lemke)
    2.2 Tarahumaras Rio Bravo)
    2.2 Sabogae Pearl Island (Vin Russo)
    2.2 Silverback Amarali (Joe Terry)
    1.1 Venezuelan Bc (Rio Bravo)
    3.3 Peruvian Bc (Rio Bravo x Rio Bravo / Jim Pomaville x Pomaville & Pomaville x Blast) Surinam Bc (WC Futo FLRT x Futo FLRT)
    1.1 Pokigron Surinam (Rio Bravo)
    2.2 Dwarf Dumerils (EU imports - my proven full grown 2010 & 2012 adults are 4-5 ft max)
    3.3 Brazilian Rainbow Boas (All completely unrelated)
    1.0 Jungle Carpet Python 'Ziggy'
    0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa 'Mara'
    1.1 Tarahumara Mountain Boas 'Paco' and 'Frida'
    1.0 Dumeril's Boa 'Gyre'
    1.0 Stimson's Python 'Jake'
    1.1 Children's Pythons 'Miso' and 'Ozzy'
    1.0 Anthill Python 'Cricket'
    1.0 Plains Hognose 'Peanut'
    1.1 Rough-scaled Sand Boas 'Rassi' and 'Kala'
    0.4 Oregon Red-spotted Garters
    1.0 Ball Python (BEL) 'Sugar'
    1.0 Gray-banded Kingsnake 'Nacho'
    1.0 Green Tree Python (Aru) 'Jade'

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