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  1. #11
    BPnet Veteran WrongPython's Avatar
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    Re: Boa Health Declining Quickly- Advice Needed

    Calling the clinic where the one vet used to work and asking if another reptile vet is on staff isn't a bad idea. Worst case they say "no," best case they may be able to connect you with someone. Sometimes there are good exotic vets that just haven't made it to the ARAV registry/finder yet. I wish I could offer more advise on the vet front, but I can't.

    As Bogertophis said, there's a chance that crop dusting, cleaners, or plant oils (specifically those from cedar, pine, and similarly fragrant woods) could be at fault here. Snakes have developed neurological symptoms from overexposure to pine products in the past, and breathing in cleaners and whatever they dust on crops just isn't good for anything. Certain anti-flea products (including the ones repurposed to fight mites) have also caused issues. The wonderful Allison Theus (AKA Crispysnakes) shared a good write-up on No-Pest Strips a little while back; she's also a good resource for IBD-related stuff.

    If it's any more consolation, you seem like a well-educated keeper who's been doing a good job by your boa. It sounds like he's had a good life with you -- however brief it's been -- and you should be proud of that. Feel free to PM me if you feel the need.
    0.1 Sonoran Boa sigma​: "Adelita" ('19 Hypo het. leopard)
    1.0 Boa imperator longicauda: "Kuzco" ('19 het. anery)
    0.1 West Papuan Morelia spilota​: "Pandora" ('20)

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  3. #12
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Re: Boa Health Declining Quickly- Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by bcr229 View Post
    I was thinking someone may have dumped a super motley onto an unsuspecting pet store. Yes there are unethical breeders out there who still produce them.

    There are a LOT of potential conditions that cause the symptoms being described, ranging from viral infections to overheating to exposure to chemicals. Without a vet visit, bloodwork, and a ton of tests or a necropsy should the boa pass away there's no way to know.
    Ugh, I forgot about that one (super motley)- thanks.

    And I agree, there's more possible causes for these symptoms too- so try not to jump to a conclusion without tests & all.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  5. #13
    Registered User OatBoii's Avatar
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    I will double check with my vet that they can perform the test.

    It is rare to smell the crop dusting in the house, but yes I have smelled it before. However, they have not dusted the crops around me since I got my snake. I got him in the fall of 2020, and they wont crop dust until typically it gets much closer to summer.

    I dont think they put flea collars in the display cages, but I wouldnt be that surprised to learn that they had used a flea spray to treat for mites. The more I've learned about reptiles, the less I've liked or trusted all pet stores, but especially mine since it's local.

    In his cage I use zoo-med wipe out, and for his water bowl I use a diluted vinegar water mix. In the house proper we dont have any pine/wood cleaners but we do use a lot of lysol for dusting and Bona for mopping. The only place we use bleach is in the bathroom.

    I will also call the vet where the ARAV vet used to work. Bare minimum maybe they can perform the test if my vet can't do it?

    Thank you all for your replies and support. This is hitting me really hard, especially the fact that even if I perform all the tests, he is probably not going to make it. Whether he was exposed to ambient chemicals, was overheated, got a virus, or he has IBD the end result is still all the same,, right? It was really painful to watch him try to eat tonight. I'm going to try to get him in as fast as I possibly can, but based on the seriousness of his issues I am not very hopeful about his chances.

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  7. #14
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    I know how you feel- you've been a thorough & conscientious owner, & it's just "not fair", & with your first snake even. This is not a typical situation or there wouldn't be so many of us keeping snakes- it's really rotten luck. I really don't think it's anything that you did (though do keep Lysol away so that reptiles aren't breathing it). We're not seeing your snake, but your descriptions are pretty complete- & I'd have to agree it doesn't look too good, but I'll hope for you & your boa anyway. I hope you get the help you need from the vet(s). And know that we're here for you too.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  9. #15
    Registered User OatBoii's Avatar
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    Update: he's sitting on his branch with his mouth open. Just. Sitting there. It's nearly 1 am and I just got up to shoo the cat away because he was being noisy and i noticed him. He isnt facing vertically he's horizontal. Is this a sign of regurgitation?

    Thank you for your kind words. I am getting more and more worried about him as the day passes, and I am not sure I'll get back to sleep now.

  10. #16
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Re: Boa Health Declining Quickly- Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by OatBoii View Post
    Update: he's sitting on his branch with his mouth open. Just. Sitting there. It's nearly 1 am and I just got up to shoo the cat away because he was being noisy and i noticed him. He isnt facing vertically he's horizontal. Is this a sign of regurgitation?

    Thank you for your kind words. I am getting more and more worried about him as the day passes, and I am not sure I'll get back to sleep now.
    Hard to say without seeing him (I'm not sure what you mean about his position, "facing horizontal"-?) but sometimes before a snake regurgitates, they'll sit with their mouth open. Or he might be having trouble breathing?
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  12. #17
    Registered User OatBoii's Avatar
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    What I mean to say is that his head is flat on the branch- not lifted. I did watch his breathing and it seems to be even, though I'm not sure how quickly or slowly he should be breathing? He hasn't shown signs of difficulty breathing up to now, and I dont see any foam/frothing that might indicate that. Sometimes his mouth, like... idk, it spasms? Surges? It sort of seems like a gagging motion?? He's never regurgitated for me before but can snakes gag?

  13. #18
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Snakes cannot cough- it's only with difficulty that they regurgitate. You said you just fed him today, so I hope he's not trying to regurgitate, but nothing you can do if he does. Try to get some sleep, eh?
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  15. #19
    Registered User OatBoii's Avatar
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    It pains me to say that he did regurgitate overnight, and passed away as well. I'm assuming the severe stress of regurgitating was just too much for him. Or maybe it was something else. I'll never know without an autopsy, and hes been dead for who knows how long already.

    Thank you all for your guidance and support. This all happened so fast over the last day... I thought I would have more time, as he had been declining but not acutely. I have a lot of guilt, sadness, and regret right now. I wish I had caught on sooner, and perhaps at least spared him some pain.

    Have a good Easter Weekend everyone. Thank you for your time.

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  17. #20
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Re: Boa Health Declining Quickly- Advice Needed

    Quote Originally Posted by OatBoii View Post
    It pains me to say that he did regurgitate overnight, and passed away as well. I'm assuming the severe stress of regurgitating was just too much for him. Or maybe it was something else. I'll never know without an autopsy, and hes been dead for who knows how long already.

    Thank you all for your guidance and support. This all happened so fast over the last day... I thought I would have more time, as he had been declining but not acutely. I have a lot of guilt, sadness, and regret right now. I wish I had caught on sooner, and perhaps at least spared him some pain.

    Have a good Easter Weekend everyone. Thank you for your time.
    I'm truly sorry to hear this, & it pains me to say I'm not actually surprised, from what you've been describing. In a way it's for the best, you might have gone to a lot of trouble & expense taking him to the vet next week, only for the same outcome. I don't think they could have done much for him, & unless you got hold of very experienced herp vets, I doubt they could have told you much either. Please do not feel guilty...I don't think you did anything that caused this, & I suspect you couldn't have helped him either. These things just happen sometimes- it was rotten luck. So sorry.

    If you want to have a necropsy done* his body needs to be refrigerated (not frozen)- that's totally up to you, & there's a few reasons you might want to do so: for one thing, if it was IBD (as a few of us suspect) or something else that's similarly contagious & lethal for snakes, you'd want to let the source you got him from know, as their other reptiles were exposed & at risk also. I wonder if they've heard from other customers about their pet reptiles dying suddenly under similar circumstances, & also if they'd admit it if they had? (Much depends on how well you know & trust them.) They should want to know that this is suspected, so they can avoid buying snakes from the same "local breeder" too.

    The other thing is that if you plan to get another pet reptile to replace your lost pal, it's best that you don't do so for probably a year+ if in fact it was IBD. There could be lingering traces in your home, assuming he wasn't strictly quarantined in one closed-off room (& no one with one pet snake would do that) that could infect the next pet snake you get. So please do think about that- not saying you would or wouldn't want to "replace" him soon, everyone feels differently about such things, but in this case, I'd suggest you wait a long while & read up on disinfection methods for IBD- sadly his symptoms DO point to that being the cause of his death. It might have been something else, but I'd treat this as if it was IBD at this point, & I doubt you'll be able to have a necropsy done- it was hard enough for you to find a qualified vet to even see him.

    Again, you did all you could to keep him comfortable...you couldn't have known...it wasn't your "fault", & I'm sorry for your sad loss. His passing was unfair but inevitable...you've been a good owner, & I hope some day you'll give reptiles another chance to share your life. FYI, the first pet snake I ever had came from a pet store too, & seemed healthy- she was a beautiful adult corn snake. But she went downhill for no reason- not wanting to eat, & I'm pretty sure it was pesticide exposure to kill mites while she was in the pet store. There was nothing I or my vet could do either, so I know how you feel. For me, that was actually decades & many snakes ago- I didn't give up, & I hope you won't either.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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