Vote for BP.Net for the 2013 Forum of the Year! Click here for more info.

» Site Navigation

» Home
 > FAQ

» Online Users: 2,830

2 members and 2,828 guests
Most users ever online was 6,337, 01-24-2020 at 04:30 AM.

» Today's Birthdays

None

» Stats

Members: 75,031
Threads: 248,489
Posts: 2,568,442
Top Poster: JLC (31,651)
Welcome to our newest member, isismomma
Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-17-2020
    Posts
    3
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    How can you tell a dark gray rat snake from a black rat snake?

    https://ohiobiota.com/wp-content/upl...dy-Avram-1.jpg

    I have a snake that was sold to me as a black rat snake, and it looks like the one above -- I don't have a photo of mine at the moment. But I've seen where someone said that's a gray rat snake. How can you tell the difference? It looks like the black rat snakes to me here in North Carolina.

  2. #2
    Bogertophis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-28-2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    20,183
    Thanks
    28,082
    Thanked 19,739 Times in 11,797 Posts
    They're closely related, as I'm sure you know. That appears to be a black rat snake to me, & one with some of the pattern still showing- it happens. They start off with a pattern that mostly darkens & obscures the lighter pigments as they mature. But even then, they don't all look the same- and some have underlying red coloration, while others may have only white (like in your photo). BTW, I've kept & raised black, grey, yellow, amelanistic ("albino') black, & Everglades rat snakes, as well as my current 7 c/b rat snakes that are a blend of yellow + gulf hammock + Everglades- I just call these "Florida blend" LOL! And no, I didn't breed these, I took them in from someone who couldn't keep them, sadly they lost job & home. (I've also kept Baird's, corns, & other kinds, including Trans Pecos & corns that I still keep.)

    Check this out- (you're not the only one that's confused!): https://herpunit.wordpress.com/2016/...s-for-dummies/

    ^ ^ ^ If the experts don't agree, there's not much hope for the rest of us, eh?
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 03-20-2021 at 05:45 PM.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-17-2020
    Posts
    3
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: How can you tell a dark gray rat snake from a black rat snake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    They're closely related, as I'm sure you know. That appears to be a black rat snake to me, & one with some of the pattern still showing- it happens. They start off with a pattern that mostly darkens & obscures the lighter pigments as they mature. But even then, they don't all look the same- and some have underlying red coloration, while others may have only white (like in your photo). BTW, I've kept & raised black, grey, yellow, amelanistic ("albino') black, & Everglades rat snakes, as well as my current 7 c/b rat snakes that are a blend of yellow + gulf hammock + Everglades- I just call these "Florida blend" LOL! And no, I didn't breed these, I took them in from someone who couldn't keep them, sadly they lost job & home. (I've also kept Baird's, corns, & other kinds, including Trans Pecos & corns that I still keep.)

    Check this out- (you're not the only one that's confused!): https://herpunit.wordpress.com/2016/...s-for-dummies/

    ^ ^ ^ If the experts don't agree, there's not much hope for the rest of us, eh?
    My snake initially had some reddish to it, but I believe all of it has faded away. I'll try getting a good picture of my snake today to see your opinion of her.

    The below video is one of the things that made me question if she is a black rat snake or not, because the snake in that video is supposed to be a black rat snake, but a comment on it said that it's a gray rat snake. Do you think it's a black rat snake or a gray rat snake? It's perplexing, haha.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSL_tAWNgyg

  4. #4
    Bogertophis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-28-2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    20,183
    Thanks
    28,082
    Thanked 19,739 Times in 11,797 Posts
    I think the herpetologists in the U.S. actually have far too little to do & this is a "make-work" situation? Bear in mind that these snakes will happily inter-breed in areas where they over-lap. Personally, none of this is keeping me awake nights- and while I might have more years in, your guess is probably as good as mine!

    To the best of my knowledge, none of the "grey" rat snakes have any red pigmentation. And the "albino" (amel) black rat snakes that I used to raise had varying amounts of red pigmentation, so that they ranged from cream color to pale peach, to either of those with a beautiful overlay of orange or red-orange patterns.

    Is there a reason this all matters to you? (ie. local legalities or breeding?)

    As far as the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSL_tAWNgyg That "appears" to me to be a black rat snake, & the reason there's so much "white" showing is that it's over-fed, & it's scales aren't overlapping very much, as they would normally be. Beyond that, you'd need to get more technical than I can to be sure- & as far as I can tell, that's best left to the scientists with time on their hands.

    I do disagree with the gal giving that talk though...if that snake wanted to bite you, it would not feel "like velcro" LOL! You'd feel the teeth real well, you just wouldn't die from it- bites from harmless snakes like rat snakes are not a big deal- they're just not "velcro" either?
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 03-20-2021 at 06:15 PM.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

  5. #5
    Bogertophis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-28-2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    20,183
    Thanks
    28,082
    Thanked 19,739 Times in 11,797 Posts
    RE: " How can you tell the difference?"

    Speaking of scientists, you could always try asking the folks at your state Game & Fish office? If it's anything like the one in my state, they have a herpetologist working for them- he or she is not likely to be the one answering the phone though- you'll have to push for the answers. Let us know what they say?
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-17-2020
    Posts
    3
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: How can you tell a dark gray rat snake from a black rat snake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    I think the herpetologists in the U.S. actually have far too little to do & this is a "make-work" situation? Bear in mind that these snakes will happily inter-breed in areas where they over-lap. Personally, none of this is keeping me awake nights- and while I might have more years in, your guess is probably as good as mine!

    To the best of my knowledge, none of the "grey" rat snakes have any red pigmentation. And the "albino" (amel) black rat snakes that I used to raise had varying amounts of red pigmentation, so that they ranged from cream color to pale peach, to either of those with a beautiful overlay of orange or red-orange patterns.

    Is there a reason this all matters to you? (ie. local legalities or breeding?)

    As far as the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSL_tAWNgyg That "appears" to me to be a black rat snake, & the reason there's so much "white" showing is that it's over-fed, & it's scales aren't overlapping very much, as they would normally be. Beyond that, you'd need to get more technical than I can to be sure- & as far as I can tell, that's best left to the scientists with time on their hands.

    I do disagree with the gal giving that talk though...if that snake wanted to bite you, it would not feel "like velcro" LOL! You'd feel the teeth real well, you just wouldn't die from it- bites from harmless snakes like rat snakes are not a big deal- they're just not "velcro" either?
    I grabbed a photo of her. I'm pretty certain she's a black rat snake. I did some photo comparisons, and caught how she has a gray snout. The ones in photos that I've seen have a black one. Perhaps that is a morph?

    Agree about those bites too, haha. She got me a few times way back, and it bleed every time.

    https://i.ibb.co/7nJtLQ4/563334.png

  7. #7
    Bogertophis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-28-2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    20,183
    Thanks
    28,082
    Thanked 19,739 Times in 11,797 Posts
    The link you shared in your first post...who told you that's a "grey" rat snake? (I'm not asking literally 'who' but do they have the expertise to actually know? & if so, did you ask them HOW they can be so sure?) Sometimes people go by the range where they're found- but that can be deceiving; snakes can hitch rides in shipments of goods (they sometimes show up in plant nurseries & places like Walmart) or they might have been captive for a while & later released or escaped outside their range.

    Yours (in above post #6) looks like a black rat snake to me also. (& well-fed too, as are my Florida rat snakes- my males are 7 footers & I've never been tagged by them* & plan to keep in that way- they're docile enough about handling- just a lot to hang onto- they're about 13 years old now, so I'm wondering "how much bigger-?" LOL) Anyway, I don't think the gray snout on yours means anything one way or the other? Snakes are not all identical even in the same species. (*these rat snakes are mostly nippy when they're young- their panic is a natural response to handling by a presumed predator- & most of them learn to relax.)

    And again, I'm not a professional scientist-herpetologist- you might pose this question to them if you can find one? I know in my state, there is just one working for the Fish & Game Dept. for the whole state. I think they'd have to know how to officially tell them apart, since it's the scientific community that keeps reclassifying these rat snakes, lol, & sometimes with snakes it comes down to obscure things like counting scale rows.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Bogertophis For This Useful Post:

    FollowTheSun (03-21-2021)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.1