New to Morelia, Many Questions

[55fingers]

I've had my ball python for around 3 years now and am finally in a situation where I'm able to get my current dream snake. Not sure what kind of carpet I want yet, but as I have no experience with them yet I have a few questions I was hoping I could get some keepers' advice on.

1. What's the main difference between different carpets? I know Costals are bigger, Irian Jayas are smaller etc, but apart from that any other differences?

2. I've heard the Jaguar morph is similar to ball python's spider morph in that it is prone to neurological problems? Is that true?

3. Can you put a yearling into an adult enclosure? I'm thinking about getting either a 4x2x2 or 6x2x2, but would that extra growing space stress it out? Or would it be alright as long as it's given lots of hides and coverage?

4. Is there any other major care differences between them and ball pythons? As far as I know, they more or less have the same temp and humidity requirements, only they require more enclosure space and bigger prey etc. Is this true?

5. How often should you handle a yearling to train aggression out of it? I've heard they can be nippy. And hook training is good to do as well, right?

6. Anything else I should know before making the leap and getting one? I've wanted one for so long and have looked into it a ton but dont want to leap before I look. Thanks!

[Toad37]

1. Other than size and pattern there isn't a lot of difference. Bredli don't need as much humidity as a jungle but once you find out which carpet you want, the research you will be doing will tell you that.

2. Jags can have a head wobble and breeding jag to jag is a lethal combination much like the spider morph in bps. But just like bps, not all jags have a head wobble. Some have bad ones and some have none at all.

3. Carpets don't stress out like bps do with too much space. Having said that, I still think a 4x2x2 for a baby carpet is a bit much. When they're young they're tiny, like corn snake tiny. You might want to consider a smaller enclosure or tub while it's still small.

4. Most of all their heat and humidity requirements are close to the same. As mentioned in 1, there are some small differences in husbandry when it comes to each species of morelia. Once you make a decision on what you want figuring out husbandry will be easy.

5. Carpets - like every other species of snake - have their own personalities. No two are the exact same. I have one that I never touch without a hook and one I'd never expect to get a nip from. The more you handle a feisty baby the more he will calm down and hook training is great for any species of snake imo.

6. Make sure you do plenty of research on the the species you want because of different husbandry requirements. They also don't feed like bps. Some will go off feed in the winter as adults but they can handle bigger meals more often without getting obese. Good luck with your search! Hope this helps.

[Alicia]

I've only had Jungles (one many moons ago, one adult now), but . . .

1. As far as differences, I can't speak from personal experience, with the one subspecies. As well as size differences, I've also gathered there can be general differences in temperament, with JCPs sited as being extra nippy. Is this true? I don't know.

2. This is true. Just like Spiders, it runs the gamut from being basically invisible to the animal being uncoordinated and completely loopy. They may be affected more by stressors than Spiders are. But, again, just JCPs here.

3. I didn't, and probably wouldn't, but it's been done by others.

4. Feeding regimen is totally different as an adult. As a nine-year-old, Sheila eats every 4-5 weeks, sometimes 6 when she's in shed, whereas my BPs the same age average a meal every other week (with some variation). Prey size, too, is indeed different, with the carpet taking bigger prey relative to her mid section.
Heating, I use a RHP with her to create a hot spot as opposed to UTHs or Heat Tape.
I admit that I don't pay a ton of attention to humidity in my cages, outside of adding a little extra for sheds or MI, but, yeah, I'd say she's at the same humidity as my BPs. Maybe a little lower now.
Temps, pretty much the same. Maybe a little lower ambient. (caveat - this is an adult animal who's used to my setup, and I tend to run things a little cooler much of the year.)

5. Once settled, I handled her a couple times a week. Same story with Orion back in college. To be honest, both were weirdos for baby Jungles, in that neither was nippy as a youngster. All the same, I used thin gloves and a DIY hook with both as babies, because I hate being bitten. In hindsight, I think gloves help babies adapt to handling without the shock of human body heat.
Sheila is hook trained, as it's nice to be able to get her out of feeding mode when I need to change her water or do cage maintenance. She's very receptive to it, and quite smart about it. Unless she's really hungry, just showing her the hook is usually enough. I've also found her to be my most readable snake.

6. I'd really recommend tracking down a copy of The Complete Carpet Python by Nick Mutton and Justin Julander. It's out of print, but I gather there's going to be a second edition at some point.
Some carpets can be a hassle to convert to rats.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

[EL-Ziggy]

I’ll agree with everything that’s been said so far with one exception. I’d advise starting the snake in it’s adult sized enclosure and just provide a few hides and some floor coverings. You can always divide the enclosure if you want but I don’t think it’s necessary at all. Best wishes whatever carpet you choose. You can’t lose either way with Morelia.

🔥MM4L🔥

[jmcrook]

I also agree with all that's been said. Only thing I will add regarding enclosure size for a yearling is that all animals are individuals and will respond differently to enclosure sizes. It could be just fine in an adult enclosure with plenty of clutter and hiding spaces, or it could become stressed and go off feed. I personally move all of my growing carpets through a series of tubs and smaller enclosures as they grow. Partially for their sense of security and partially so it's easier for me to see waste and spot clean as needed. I don't have much interest in scouring a 4' cage looking for poops from a snake the size of a shoelace haha!

Another suggestion for research: Listen to as much Morelia Python Radio as you can! An absolutely invaluable resource for all things carpet python related and beyond. Also keep your eyes peeled for The MORE Complete Carpet Python by Nick Mutton and Justin Julander hopefully this year. The first edition is incredible and I expect the follow up to be outstanding.

MORELIA MAFIA 4 LIFE

[Alicia]

As a nine-year-old, Sheila eats every 4-5 weeks, sometimes 6 when she's in shed,

Correction - Sheila is an '09, not nine. Blaming the allergy stuff.

Also, wanted to second Morelia Python Radio!

[dakski]

First, I totally agree with hook training anything with a strong food drive and/or size that can do damage. CP's meet both requirements. Great eaters, but also can be very docile and inquisitive, especially as they grow.

Secondly, they, in general, can handle slightly higher temps than a BP as well as lower temps on the cool side. I keep my IJ/Darwin Hybrid, Yafe, at 90-93F basking spot, 88-90F below the basking spot/perch on the ground, ambient at about 82F, and cool side about 78-80F. Similar to what I keep my BP at, but up to 3-4F higher on the basking spot. I've heard many CP breeds can easily handle a 95F basking spot, but that doesn't give much room for error in my opinion. So I keep it about 93F at the hottest. Having said that, my BP never sees over 90F. Additionally, the cool side can be 74-75F from what I've heard, but I keep mine a little higher.

Third, carpets eat bigger meals proportionality that BP's, by far. A CP can eat 15% of their body weight easily in a sitting (assuming temps are correct) and eat items 1.5-2X their girth. You would never do the latter with a BP and weight wise 15% is also not advised, to say the least.

Fourth, Carpet's seemingly have more personality. I know this is a BP forum, and I will probably get flack for this. However, they are generally much less shy than BP's and much more outgoing. Yafe is cross between my BP, my corns, and my boas. He's calm and docile, but likes to move around and explore, and is definitely more active when being held than a BP or even my boas (most fo the time). For what's worth, I love Shayna, my BP, but she's not as exciting to handle as Yafe.

Fifth, I would say adult enclosure depends on size of CP when you get him/her and size of tank, perches, etc.

I got Yafe at about a year old and about 110G. He was in quarantine for a while - also recovering from an RI because of getting lost in transit - but moved into his 4X2X1.5' life tank, with two perches, at about 145G. I gave him lots of hides and started with thinner perches than he has now (PVC pipe perches) and he did great. My impetus for moving him was moving him into his Boaphile meant I could maintain temps and humidity better than I could in his smaller quarantine home. I believe that move got him over the hump and got him really growing and all RI symptoms disappeared completely (the last 5% or so of his symptoms really improved with the higher humidity and better temps and gradient). He had been treated with antibiotics injections and nebulizer antibiotics as well.

Anyway, my point here is that it does depend on the animal, but Yafe did better in his PVC Boaphile tank because it was easier to control his environment and have it meet his needs than a smaller enclosure was. Having said that, I didn't throw him into the larger enclosure right away when I got him. I think you would want to establish your CP (especially if under a year an 100G) in a smaller quarantine tank (and definitely quarantine since you have another snake). If he's big enough and you can still quarantine him/her in the larger tank, it might work, but I would prefer, if I was you, to see him in a smaller space until he's established and eating well, etc.

Finally, especially when younger and/or getting established, CP's can be more sensitive to conditions/husbandry than BP's. Yafe is not the only CP I've heard of who got an RI fairly easily. The stress of a new place, shipping, etc. can be more dramatic health wise. Not to say BP's are immune, and Yafe did get lost for a day in the cold, but he did get a horrible RI within a day of getting him.

Having said all that, Yafe hasn't had any issues since and eats like a pig and is now over 850G about 2 1/2 years later. I am pretty on top of his husbandry, but don't worry about it like I used to.

I do think proper quarantine and leaving your new CP alone until he/she has eaten 3 consecutive meals is a good idea.

I went on here, and I am sure others have opinions, but feel free to ask for clarification or any other questions you might have.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[55fingers]

Thanks everyone! It all really helps. Today I went to my local reptile hobbyist store and they had a few carpets there so I decided to go ahead and get one. At the moment they are still holding her there for me for about a week so I have time to set up the enclosure and get temps stabilized etc. I talked to the store owner as well who is very knowledgeable and has tons of experience and he was able to give me some good advice and tips as well. I've been looking into getting one for a year or two now so I figured now was as good a time as any, plus I didn't want to pass this individual snake up.

I am absolutely in love with her. I was told she is a jungle jaguar (I was going to try and avoid jag if I could because I try to avoid spider bps as well just because of the neuro issues, but I talked with the store owner and any type of wobble she might have is almost completely unnoticeable) and is just under 7 months old I believe, eating F/T mice.




Her coloration is beautiful, and photos don't quite pick up the extent of her yellow sometimes. My sister also noted to me the "heart" pattern on her head which I didn't notice before haha. I am so happy with her and I can't wait to bring her home once I have things sorted for her.

The store owner let me hold her and assured me that though she is nippy, she can easily be tamed down with enough handling. I will be of course quarantining her in a different room and giving her space for a few weeks before I try handling her.

The store owner also has a T8 he might be willing to sell to me, so I might eventually move her to that which would suit her for a couple years I would imagine. I will be quarantining her in a tub for a few months until I can get her a PVC enclosure, so I was wondering, what size tub should I use? She is in a 10 gallon in the store currently, but it's mostly for display and is temporary of course. I would like to give her some arboreal space as well if I can. Would something like an 18gal Sterilite be too big?

Also, how has everyone else's experience been with switching a carpet from mice to rats? And at what point should I start trying to do that? Also, you guys are saying that carpets can take prey up to 2x the size of their girth, unlike BPs, right? I'm going to be getting a digital scale so I can properly monitor and gauge that. Thanks for the help! I wouldn't be able to do this without the years of knowledge I have received from this form

[dakski]

Congrats 55 Fingers. She looks beautiful.

Just so you know, Jags can develop the neurological symptoms with age, but it's good she isn't showing signs now. She may never, especially being crossed with Jungle. Not trying to tell you what to do one way or the other, I just don't want you to be surprised down the road if that occurs.

Don't be discouraged if she doesn't calm down quickly with handling. That will help, but carpets can be nippy when small partly as a serious defense mechanism because they know they can easily be eaten. Many calm down as they age. My guy, Yafe, was never nippy, but once he hit about 500G he got noticeably calmer and easier to handle. It's almost like he knew that he was bigger and not as easily a prey item.

The hook training will help as well as well as there won't be surprises when you go in to pick her up.

Yafe had zero issues going from mice to rats. Once your girl is established and taken 3-5 meals for you of mice, I would try to switch. The sooner the better IMO.

Although Carpets can take 1.5-2X their girth, I would stick to below 1.5X for the first few meals while she's getting established. Further, you want to make sure not to offer meals that big (1.5-2X girth) until you are sure everything is dialed in and she's comfortable in her home.

Love her "heart" and good luck and keep us posted!

[jmcrook]

I’d start with a ~15qt tub. Maybe 32qt if it’s got plenty of clutter and hides. I’ve got a 9 month old jungle in a 15qt and she’s doing great. Would use more space if I gave it to her and will pretty soon, but simple enclosures are best for quarantine. Easy to monitor and clean and keep an eye on things.



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