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  1. #11
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    I converted one from my old tank my blues are on now and can't get a picture to come out right. this is Stormy in her frogspawn she was hosting before I moved her to the 112. Now she has her little buddy Hurricane.

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  3. #12
    BPnet Veteran Trinityblood's Avatar
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    Re: Fish/Invert only Saltwater

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongPython View Post
    Nice to see a thread for your tank, Trinityblood! Hopefully I'll have a thread of my own like this up and running in a few years.

    Yeah, clownfish are a lot less aggressive than other damselfish. Between them and the peppermint shrimp, I think you've got a nice selection of fairy hardy early inhabitants there. I'd definitely hold off on adding anything else until your tank is at least three months old, though. Marine tanks take a bit more time to establish and stabilize compared to freshwater ones.

    Little fighting conchs like yours can actually be a bit tricky to keep alive, particularly in small tanks. If your shrimp is trying to steal its food while you feed, try occupying your shrimp by hand-feeding it, instead of using current to push it away or putting it in a breeding net. I hand-fed the fish and shrimp in my reef tank and it worked like a charm - the bolder critters like my percula clowns and cleaner shrimp would come and eat out of my fingers, while the other critters fed on the bits of food that drifted away from the block. Little bits of dried seaweed sheet left near the bottom may also be a nice little snack for your conch to feed on.

    If you'd like to add a little something colorful and coral-like in the future, try looking into mushroom corals/polyps and Zoanthus polyps. They aren't particularly demanding in terms of water quality, lighting, and trace minerals and tend to do well in smaller tanks.
    I can't wait to see your thread once you decide it's time for a tank!

    I work at home all day and when I see the conch grazing I constantly move it to more algae dense areas of the tank and will setit right over sinking pellets or nori seaweed. It seems to ignore the seaweed. I hand feed the pellets to the shrimp with tongs and its all too eager to take them. It will climb up them and be all over my fingers. Not a shred of fear in that thing. It even comes out of the rocks when I approach the tank. I hope to keep them both well fed as the tank matures more. I didn't think I would get so into the inverts but I'm spending more time making sure they're fed and not causing drama than the fish!

    Is a tiger conch a type of fighting conch? Ithought they were different?

    I was only going to stick the shrimp in a net if I left for more than a day because I don't trust it to not try to eat the conch when it gets hungry. The shrimp already flipped the conch once.

    My plan is to put a yellow clown goby, or one with a royal gramma, in a quarantine tank. Once I get that tank cycled. And observe/medicate if needed while the other tank matures more. I want to add the clown goby to the main tank, then if I have the gramma, add it two weeks after. Or I may just go with the Gramma... I'm not sure if that would be too much of a load for a 20gallon. That would be a process that should line up with 3 months or more.

    Thanks for the suggestions!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormyvt View Post
    I converted one from my old tank my blues are on now and can't get a picture to come out right. this is Stormy in her frogspawn she was hosting before I moved her to the 112. Now she has her little buddy Hurricane.
    Wow, the frogspawn and clown are gorgeous! The clown's pattern kind of reminds me of a paint horse.
    Last edited by Trinityblood; 02-28-2021 at 09:36 PM.

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  5. #13
    BPnet Veteran WrongPython's Avatar
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    Re: Fish/Invert only Saltwater

    Yeah, I'm looking forward to starting up the reef tank again! It'll probably be a few years before that happens, though. They're a real pain to move, even something as small as a 30 gallon. Whenever it happens, I'll either be doing a percula clown and bubbletip anemone tank or a small soft and LPS coral reef with gobies and shrimp.

    Tiger conchs and fighting conchs are probably the same conch, just by a different common name. Yours looks just like the fighting conch I used to have. If you continue to have trouble with your shrimp bullying your conch, try deepening the sand bed a bit. The conch should make use of the deeper sandbed to burrow away from the shrimp.

    Two Ocellaris clowns, a peppermint shrimp, and a clown goby will definitely be okay in a 20 gallon if your tank is established and your filtration is sufficient. The addition of the royal gramma is where things get iffy. They're more active than the clownfish and clown goby, and more suited to a 30 gallon tank than a 20 gallon. Try adding your clown goby, seeing how things work out, and going from there.
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  7. #14
    BPnet Lifer dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Fish/Invert only Saltwater

    Thank you for posting Trinityblood. Nice looking tank and fish.

    I've found keeping fish, in general, is more demanding than reptiles.

    The technology has improved for both reptile keeping and fish keeping, making both hobbies easier, but reptiles have a little more margin for error in general. You still cannot get away from water changes in fish tanks, which are more demanding and prone to error than changing paper in a reptile tank (or whatever substrate you use).

    I also think the amount of information out there is better and more accessible. There is still bad info and people who don't want to learn how to do things properly or think they know better. However, if you want good info, you can usually find it. When I was kid, you couldn't Google "Nitrogen Cycle" or "Reptile Thermostat." I was super reliant back then on books and pet store staff. Not always a good thing.

    Anyway, I digressed. I really like tank and I am glad you started a post on your tank.

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  9. #15
    BPnet Veteran Trinityblood's Avatar
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    Re: Fish/Invert only Saltwater

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongPython View Post
    Yeah, I'm looking forward to starting up the reef tank again! It'll probably be a few years before that happens, though. They're a real pain to move, even something as small as a 30 gallon. Whenever it happens, I'll either be doing a percula clown and bubbletip anemone tank or a small soft and LPS coral reef with gobies and shrimp.

    Tiger conchs and fighting conchs are probably the same conch, just by a different common name. Yours looks just like the fighting conch I used to have. If you continue to have trouble with your shrimp bullying your conch, try deepening the sand bed a bit. The conch should make use of the deeper sandbed to burrow away from the shrimp.

    Two Ocellaris clowns, a peppermint shrimp, and a clown goby will definitely be okay in a 20 gallon if your tank is established and your filtration is sufficient. The addition of the royal gramma is where things get iffy. They're more active than the clownfish and clown goby, and more suited to a 30 gallon tank than a 20 gallon. Try adding your clown goby, seeing how things work out, and going from there.

    That's part of what kept me away from tanks, too. Moving too much.

    That sounds like an awesome setup. Can't wait.

    I believe Tiger/Fighting conchs are different. The tiger conch goes by a few different names (like strawberry) and fighting isn't one of them. Their scientific names are different, too. Correct me if I'm wrong. Tiger seems the smaller of the two species.

    Tiger: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conomurex_luhuanus

    Fighting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strombus

    Yes, for sure. I've been adding livestock in stages and will be waiting longer before deciding when/how to add. Goby is a safe bet a bit later on. Gramma is, as you say, the iffy one.

    Quote Originally Posted by dakski View Post
    Thank you for posting Trinityblood. Nice looking tank and fish.

    I've found keeping fish, in general, is more demanding than reptiles.

    The technology has improved for both reptile keeping and fish keeping, making both hobbies easier, but reptiles have a little more margin for error in general. You still cannot get away from water changes in fish tanks, which are more demanding and prone to error than changing paper in a reptile tank (or whatever substrate you use).

    I also think the amount of information out there is better and more accessible. There is still bad info and people who don't want to learn how to do things properly or think they know better. However, if you want good info, you can usually find it. When I was kid, you couldn't Google "Nitrogen Cycle" or "Reptile Thermostat." I was super reliant back then on books and pet store staff. Not always a good thing.

    Anyway, I digressed. I really like tank and I am glad you started a post on your tank.
    Thanks!

    Funny, I got a reptile partly to convince myself to not get fish. But the itch didn't go away....It didn't for 10 years and I kidded myself lol. They're different worlds in terms of care but both so interesting to learn about and care for. Reptiles are like caring for the animal specifically. Fish is caring for an entire ecosystem.

    I hear you on the accessibility part. Back then I got my info from the local fish store and my high school teacher who was teaching the marine class I was in. I was taught to cycle with a fish (with no bacteria in a bottle or tips to use prime to reduce ammonia) and had never heard of using a heater. Good thing I never owned a beta. It probably would have lived in a fish bowl. I never would have gotten my ball python if it weren't for all the information on the internet, either. I was exposed to snake keeping that way and all the info made me appreciate the animal and confidant in jumping into owning one though I don't know a soul in real life who owns a reptile.

    I'll be waiting for Lincoln updates too!
    Last edited by Trinityblood; 02-28-2021 at 11:45 PM.

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  11. #16
    BPnet Lifer dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Fish/Invert only Saltwater

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinityblood View Post

    Thanks!

    Funny, I got a reptile partly to convince myself to not get fish. But the itch didn't go away....It didn't for 10 years and I kidded myself lol. They're different worlds in terms of care but both so interesting to learn about and care for. Reptiles are like caring for the animal specifically. Fish is caring for an entire ecosystem.

    I hear you on the accessibility part. Back then I got my info from the local fish store and my high school teacher who was teaching the marine class I was in. I was taught to cycle with a fish (with no bacteria in a bottle or tips to use prime to reduce ammonia) and had never heard of using a heater. Good thing I never owned a beta. It probably would have lived in a fish bowl. I never would have gotten my ball python if it weren't for all the information on the internet, either. I was exposed to snake keeping that way and all the info made me appreciate the animal and confidant in jumping into owning one though I don't know a soul in real life who owns a reptile.

    I'll be waiting for Lincoln updates too!
    "Reptiles are like caring for the animal specifically. Fish is caring for an entire ecosystem."

    I really l like the way you said this. I agree 90% with the reptile part and 100% with the fish part.

    I think some aspects of reptile keeping, like dealing with humidity, can be a little more ecosystem like, but in general, given how forgiving most reptiles are comparatively, it's so much less of an issue. Plus, once you have humidity and temps dialed in, the amount of times you have to address is minimal. Of course, given that you can really interact with a reptile, you do look at the animal much more than the tank. It's also much more about meeting that animal's needs than trying to balance the chemistry of fish tank.

    Fish tanks are always changing and are fluid (no pun intended) and linear. My boas can go two weeks or more without wasting or eating, so all I am doing is checking and maintaining temps and humidity (which modern tech like PVC cages and thermostats, etc. make easy). Then cleaning up when needed. A fish tank, like Lincoln's (yes even a 4G) is consistently building waste product and eventually that waste (in the form of nitrate) needs to be removed and regularly. There are other factors that go into it too. You have treat water, get it to temp, etc. You can't just throw it into your tank.

    Anyway, definitely not trying to be argumentative. Just trying to elaborate and give my two cents.

    I appreciate your thorough and accurate assessments and feedback on this site.

    Yeah, sadly, I lost reptiles when I was young (RIP) due to not knowing how to properly care for them (and getting WC and sick animals not knowing any better). I swore that when I was older and could take care of them the right way, I would get back in the hobby. I've made it somewhat of a life mission to not only care for my crew, but also help others not make my mistakes and learn how to care for their animals as well.

    I imagine maturity and age (and wisdom?) has helped me become a much better reptile keeper. However, I am convinced that a combination of resources (both my financial resources vs. when I was a kid and information and technology available to me and other keepers) has made it possible for me to keep as many animals as I do and with relative ease.

    I'll definitely keep everyone in the loop on Lincoln and the reptile crew!

    P.S. I'd have big fish tanks too if I had the time, energy, space, etc. I am limited especially on the first two. I wish my health was better, but know I am blessed having as many animals as I do, and some great ones at that. I also want to be able to give everyone proper attention and not just "have" them.
    Last edited by dakski; 03-01-2021 at 01:21 AM.

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  13. #17
    BPnet Senior Member GoingPostal's Avatar
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    Nice little setup! I'm the opposite on saltwater, I only want coral and no fish lol, my one tank has a clownfish I was given and she is the worst, so territorial she bites me anytime I'm in the tank and literally jumps out when I feed if I'm not careful. I love inverts and coral though, there's so many tiny cool crabs and shrimp in the hobby.

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  15. #18
    BPnet Veteran Trinityblood's Avatar
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    Re: Fish/Invert only Saltwater

    Quote Originally Posted by dakski View Post
    "Reptiles are like caring for the animal specifically. Fish is caring for an entire ecosystem."

    I really l like the way you said this. I agree 90% with the reptile part and 100% with the fish part.

    I think some aspects of reptile keeping, like dealing with humidity, can be a little more ecosystem like, but in general, given how forgiving most reptiles are comparatively, it's so much less of an issue. Plus, once you have humidity and temps dialed in, the amount of times you have to address is minimal. Of course, given that you can really interact with a reptile, you do look at the animal much more than the tank. It's also much more about meeting that animal's needs than trying to balance the chemistry of fish tank.

    Fish tanks are always changing and are fluid (no pun intended) and linear. My boas can go two weeks or more without wasting or eating, so all I am doing is checking and maintaining temps and humidity (which modern tech like PVC cages and thermostats, etc. make easy). Then cleaning up when needed. A fish tank, like Lincoln's (yes even a 4G) is consistently building waste product and eventually that waste (in the form of nitrate) needs to be removed and regularly. There are other factors that go into it too. You have treat water, get it to temp, etc. You can't just throw it into your tank.

    Anyway, definitely not trying to be argumentative. Just trying to elaborate and give my two cents.

    I appreciate your thorough and accurate assessments and feedback on this site.

    Yeah, sadly, I lost reptiles when I was young (RIP) due to not knowing how to properly care for them (and getting WC and sick animals not knowing any better). I swore that when I was older and could take care of them the right way, I would get back in the hobby. I've made it somewhat of a life mission to not only care for my crew, but also help others not make my mistakes and learn how to care for their animals as well.

    I imagine maturity and age (and wisdom?) has helped me become a much better reptile keeper. However, I am convinced that a combination of resources (both my financial resources vs. when I was a kid and information and technology available to me and other keepers) has made it possible for me to keep as many animals as I do and with relative ease.

    I'll definitely keep everyone in the loop on Lincoln and the reptile crew!

    P.S. I'd have big fish tanks too if I had the time, energy, space, etc. I am limited especially on the first two. I wish my health was better, but know I am blessed having as many animals as I do, and some great ones at that. I also want to be able to give everyone proper attention and not just "have" them.
    My statement was general. I agree with everything you said. A reptile's environment is still important.

    You've learned from your mistakes! And its cool that you know your limits. That's hard to do sometimes. I, too, am at my limit for keeping critters. 2 dogs, 1 snake, and 1 fish tank is perfect for me. I may get another snake, but not for several years. I am enjoying improving the lives of the animals I have and appreciate their presence.

    I have been learning a lot on this site from everyone's opinions. I don't chime in on care just yet since I haven't even had my snake for a year, but I'm always reading y'alls solutions for other users and seeing if I can use that for my snake care.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoingPostal View Post
    Nice little setup! I'm the opposite on saltwater, I only want coral and no fish lol, my one tank has a clownfish I was given and she is the worst, so territorial she bites me anytime I'm in the tank and literally jumps out when I feed if I'm not careful. I love inverts and coral though, there's so many tiny cool crabs and shrimp in the hobby.
    Thanks! I can see why. Corals are awesome. Maybe if you put the clown in a breeder net for a day or two, or rearrange the clown's hosting spot it will calm down?



    That bugger shrimp was picking on the conch this morning. I fed the shrimp a pellet. It ate it and went back to the conch. I buried the conch but it wasn't having it and popped right back out of the sand. Right now I have the conch caged off till the shrimp loses interest.
    Last edited by Trinityblood; 03-01-2021 at 11:40 AM.

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  17. #19
    BPnet Veteran Trinityblood's Avatar
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    The conch sadly didn't make it. It was either killed by the shrimp, harassed so much by the shrimp that it stopped eating and starved, or it was already on its way out when I added it to the tank and the shrimp could tell. It was eating both algae and pellets fine whenever the shrimp was off it, but it didn't work out.

    The ammonia spiked after its death so I dosed dechlorinator and did a water change. The other inhabitants were unaffected by the ammonia several days later.

    I'm starting to get a hair algae bloom. A normal occurrence for new tanks. The ugly phase. The coralline algae will eventually outgrow it and outcompete the hair algae, but not for a long while. I might be grabbing a couple more snails.

    Hitchhikers:

    I keep finding limbs and half bodied asternia sea stars climbing the walls of the tank and I purge them whenever I find them. I hope they don't explode in population. They're not harmful, but i'd rather not end up with hundreds of them plastered to the walls of the tank.

    Collonista snails are starting to pop up. They usually explode in population with algae. They can become so numerous that they start clogging up equipment so I'm watching them for now. May start removing them on sight.

    spotted some parasitic snails that latch onto the astreas. I keep removing them on sight.

    Saw a single chiton. Good algae grazer and hope there's more of them.

    I haven't seen any types of worms. I may just be bad at spotting them.

    On an upside, I haven't seen a single aphasia since adding the shrimp.

    I'd take some pics of the hitchhikers, but I'd need a macro camera. Anything else and they are just a blur.

    Other:

    The clowns were moved to the quarantine tank. One of them was showing clear signs of a parasitic infection that is for sure not velvet or brook...so I'm going to treat both clowns and let the main tank go fallow for 3 months.

    I thought tank bred fish would have better health quality control, but I guess not. Disappointing.
    Last edited by Trinityblood; 03-07-2021 at 09:06 PM.

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  19. #20
    BPnet Lifer dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Fish/Invert only Saltwater

    Thank you for the update.

    Sorry to hear you are having some issues.

    I hope the clowns recover fully.

    Good luck and keep us posted.

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