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  1. #11
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    Re: Looking to start a small colony

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicey View Post
    Just a note - if you use an automatic drip waterer in a rack, make ABSOLUTELY SURE that the rats can't somehow get to the tubes and perhaps pull off a valve. My daughter's rat supplier lost his entire stock when one of his top-tier rats did exactly that and flooded all the tubs.

    Flooded tubs can happen. Some of the high dollar systems have drains in them. First tub rack I made used metal mixing tubs. I drilled weep holes 4" up. An the little buggers pulled the valve. I lost some pinks (30 ish) but that was it. I use more water bottles then water systems. The grow out racks use the water systems. They have 40 or so in each tub. Breeding tubs don't need a five gallon bucket. Worried about flooding a tub? Drill some holes an cover then with cheap metal flashing (step is thick an cheap). Water will go around an out the holes. An the rats can't/wont eat the metal. You could use 1/4" wire also.

    Was at a pet shop in DE yesterday. They had five 3'x5' tanks with feeders. The breeder tubs where Sterilite boot boxes on shelving. You can start small on the cheap or go BIG.


    ARS Caging, Professional Caging for Professional Breeders. Reptile Breeding Systems and Rodent Breeding Systems: ARS Caging

    Check face book an the like for snake or rodent groups near you. Snake groups will have a few backyard prey breeders. Rodent groups raise pets. Don't type about feeding them to your other pet


    Good luck!

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  3. #12
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to start a small colony

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrr View Post
    ...
    In terms of what I'm looking to feed, I have two adult ball pythons (male and female), a Kenyan sand boa and 2 adult russian ratsnakes.. so the sizes I'll need will vary. I'm planning on pairing the ratsnakes and the ball pythons so having a steady supply of live and frozen food will definitely save me some money...
    Raising rats to feed just 5 snakes is an awful lot of work- you'll end up with too many rats the wrong size, or the right size at the wrong time. Expense-wise, you'll probably break even. I used to raise rats (& sold surplus rats, mice & hamsters, actually) & I only use quality name brand rodent chow too, btw. And about white rats versus "hooded"- yes, hooded rats are cuter, so you can sell surplus as pets, and also, you can tell them apart- helps to avoid inbreeding too. I only raise mice now- as I'm "only" feeding 19 snakes, none of which need rats.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  5. #13
    BPnet Veteran nikkubus's Avatar
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    I never used Mazuri, though I know a lot of breeders that do for some reason. I think Envigo (formerly Harlan) is better quality for far cheaper. Comes in 44lb bags for less than Mazuri 25lb bags, probably still more than the dog food but not by much. We don't have that particular dog food brand at our TSC so I couldn't really give an exact comparison. Everything but alcohol is so much more expensive here than most places in the country, so me paying $23 for Envigo is probably not going to match whatever it is there. I paid $16 for it in CO when I lived there 7 years ago, probably a little more now.
    7.22 BP 1.4 corn 1.1 SD retic 0.1 hognose

  6. #14
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to start a small colony

    Quote Originally Posted by nikkubus View Post
    I never used Mazuri, though I know a lot of breeders that do for some reason. I think Envigo (formerly Harlan) is better quality for far cheaper. Comes in 44lb bags for less than Mazuri 25lb bags, probably still more than the dog food but not by much. We don't have that particular dog food brand at our TSC so I couldn't really give an exact comparison. Everything but alcohol is so much more expensive here than most places in the country, so me paying $23 for Envigo is probably not going to match whatever it is there. I paid $16 for it in CO when I lived there 7 years ago, probably a little more now.
    I'm currently using Mazuri, & it's actually cheaper than the Purina-brand specialty rodent breeder lab blocks I had been buying. I'm not in a big city area, so I have to use what my feed store can get in unless I want to spend a small fortune for private shipping, & their supplier changed. I'm actually very happy with Mazuri, ditto for the Purina; I've never fed any dog chow & never would, even though some do & swear it's okay, I'll pass. I support science in general & prefer to use food that's nutritionally balanced for rodents. My mice don't care either, between Purina rodent chow & the Mazuri, in case you wondering, & they appear much the same. FYI- I pay $28+ for a 50 lb. bag of Mazuri, & the Purina lab blocks were $33 (+change) per 50 lb. bag. Smaller bags always cost more per pound.

    I also supplement what my mice are eating with bits of fresh kale, safflower & sunflower seeds. Adding such extras is even better for rats, they like almost anything too, but don't feed "junk food". By all means, let them lick clean your "empty" peanut butter jars, lol- they do a great job & it enriches their cage-existence. Giving treats to rats really helps keep them social with you & far less likely to bite. (this is for the OP, I'm sure you-nikkubus- know this) Also, rats love variety & need roughly the same balance in their diet as humans- the extra vitamins in veggies & the extra protein & fats in seeds & nuts helps their reproduction.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  8. #15
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    Re: Looking to start a small colony

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    Raising rats to feed just 5 snakes is an awful lot of work- you'll end up with too many rats the wrong size, or the right size at the wrong time. Expense-wise, you'll probably break even. I used to raise rats (& sold surplus rats, mice & hamsters, actually) & I only use quality name brand rodent chow too, btw. And about white rats versus "hooded"- yes, hooded rats are cuter, so you can sell surplus as pets, and also, you can tell them apart- helps to avoid inbreeding too. I only raise mice now- as I'm "only" feeding 19 snakes, none of which need rats.
    I know that I don't have the biggest collection at the moment, but I'm currently paying $7-11/rat every week - per snake.. even one litter could provide me with quite a bit of food. I think with a lot of these tips here, I could find a more cost effective way to do it. That being said, I don't want to seem overly naive here.. I'm aware that there are still expenses involved. I just feel like it'll save my overall food costs - especially when I begin to breed

    Another question for everyone.. One feed supplier here suggested that when I separate the boys/girls at 5 weeks, that I put the boys in with the dad and leave the girls with mom. Will the older male rat hurt the little ones though? That's my only concern there, I'm not sure if he'll attack them or not.

    On a related note (I can't remember if I've asked this), but can the breeder males be housed together when they're not being used for breeding, or will they kill each other? I know that male rats can live in groups (I own 4 currently), but I wasn't sure if that would change when a female was involved.

  9. #16
    BPnet Senior Member jmcrook's Avatar
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    Looking to start a small colony

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrr View Post
    I know that I don't have the biggest collection at the moment, but I'm currently paying $7-11/rat every week - per snake..
    That is absolute robbery. You could get that down to 1/3 the price at least by ordering frozen rodents from an online supplier. My top three are listed below. ~$30 shipping per box and depending on what sizes your animals are eating you could probably stock up for several months or more with one full box.

    Cold Blooded Cafe
    Big Cheese Rodents
    Perfect Prey

    I know that cold blooded cafe even shows the % of space left to fill in a single box as you fill your cart on their website.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by jmcrook; 02-06-2021 at 06:38 PM.

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  11. #17
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    I can get them cheaper if I'm willing to travel about an hour's drive away - there's a feed supplier who sells for under $5/medium rat. The problem is I can't always get out there. There's also a place that delivers, I just need to sort out the storage space situation at my place. I'm looking into getting a chest freezer to keep my feeders in.

    I figure if I breed my own though, I'll always have food on hand, and I can always sell any overflow to people locally too. Most reptile owners in my town pay the $7-11/rat price from the local pet store, so I can provide a cheaper option at least.

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  13. #18
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    "Another question for everyone.. One feed supplier here suggested that when I separate the boys/girls at 5 weeks, that I put the boys in with the dad and leave the girls with mom. Will the older male rat hurt the little ones though? That's my only concern there, I'm not sure if he'll attack them or not."

    Short answer.
    Don't do it!

    Reasons:
    Weaned rats will still nurse. So mom won't gain weight back as fast an she'll get ticked off sooner or latter. An then roll the kids.

    Young males with dad. Dad will treat them like females. Fight to show dominance an on an on.

    House rats about the same size. So they grow about the same rate.

    Find a pregnant female to try your hand a raising some.

    Good luck!

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  15. #19
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    Re: Looking to start a small colony

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrr View Post
    I can get them cheaper if I'm willing to travel about an hour's drive away - there's a feed supplier who sells for under $5/medium rat. The problem is I can't always get out there. There's also a place that delivers, I just need to sort out the storage space situation at my place. I'm looking into getting a chest freezer to keep my feeders in.

    I figure if I breed my own though, I'll always have food on hand, and I can always sell any overflow to people locally too. Most reptile owners in my town pay the $7-11/rat price from the local pet store, so I can provide a cheaper option at least.

    Think about an upright freezer instead of a chest. They have the same foot print or smaller for an upright. With an upright you don't loose things. The bottom of a chest freezer can be scary. Also, don't buy a frost free model. It will cycle an thaw. So will the food in it. If you won't use it in five month get a vacuum sealer. That can make frozen food (rats) last years.

    If your in the States others have already listed some suppliers that ship bulk. Get some friends together an split an order.

    Now, one thing small hobby breeders forget. What happens to the rats if you go away for a week or two? If you don't have somebody to watch an check on them it's option two. Gas the colony an start over when you get back. Heck I know snake keepers that raise rats for six months. Gas them an restart after the summer. That fills their freezers.

    Good luck!

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  17. #20
    BPnet Veteran nikkubus's Avatar
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    Re: Looking to start a small colony

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrr View Post
    On a related note (I can't remember if I've asked this), but can the breeder males be housed together when they're not being used for breeding, or will they kill each other? I know that male rats can live in groups (I own 4 currently), but I wasn't sure if that would change when a female was involved.
    Males can be hard to keep together once a female is in the equation but if you keep them consistently together it's fine. In 303's first post he says he keeps 2 males in a tub and doesn't move them, but instead puts females in to theirs. This is really the very best method, and ideally the two will be littermates or introduced to each other not long after weaning. Any tiny little thing you do different is likely to cause fighting. If you are going to instead separate a male from another to breed to a female, and then put him back with the other male, I would only put him with a female for a day or two, which means you have to pay enough attention to know she is in estrous. Another option is really only for pretty large scale, and that is to have enough females to rotate males through that they are always with a female and never with each other.

    Freshly weaned boys CAN go with adult males, but there will be fighting to establish dominance, and sometimes that can end badly. It's very much dependent on your line how aggressive they are to other rats. I just don't see any good reason to do that instead of have 2+ growout tubs though. It's just not worth the trouble and you really shouldn't have a ton of mature rats in one tub anyways. The more per tub, the more often you have to clean. Personally I'd prefer to only have to clean once a week.
    7.22 BP 1.4 corn 1.1 SD retic 0.1 hognose

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