Brooks Kingsnake strange digestion and behavior? (diarrhea and biting himself)

[mopuim]

Hello! I am new to this forum because I have a male brooks kingsnake who has had a recent change in digestion and behavior, such as pooping a day later after eating and multiple times throughout the week, diarrhea or softer poop (sometimes has green in it), and biting his own tail. Some important details are listed below:

• >3.5 years old and around 3-4 feet long
• Eats a large mouse every week now in a separate container (always eats well)
• Has an overhead lamp at 50w for daytime and an under tank mat all day
• ZooMed Aspen Bedding in a 40 gallon tank
• Ambient temperature is around 74F and humidity is usually 50-60

He used to eat a large mouse every two weeks (and eats well) and has never acted anything like this. He attacks his tail as if he is starving and tries to strangle himself. His tail is all bit up with a bunch of scratches and peeling scales (he usually bites from the side and doesn’t swallow his whole tail). When he is in this state, he tends to be very reactant and goes around his tank pretty fast. I take him out when he does this, and he becomes very tight around my hands and turns my fingers purple while trying to tangle himself into the tightest knot. He tightens himself in concerning ways and his body cracks, which I am hoping are just his scales. When he does this, I usually feed him and it resolves the problem until a few days after he poops, where he goes back into hunting mode and tends to be quick and aggressive. He does occasionally bite (which he has only done once when he was very young), and when he does, he makes a slight wheezing sound every few seconds, but he does this when he eats too. He also does this when he is really tight around my hands. He also has been pooping more than usual and it happens not long after he eats. It was pretty much diarrhea and some had a little bit of green coloration (not urates).

I took him to the vet and it turns out that he had 2 types of bacteria that are common in snakes. Nothing else was wrong with him in particular. They did find some aspen bedding in his system, which I haven’t noticed before. I think he has been getting bedding in his system because he has been attacking himself and accidentally getting some in his mouth. They suggested an x-ray to check for impaction, but I haven't seen anything like it since. We got him some oral antibiotics which he took every other day for 2 weeks, and he seemed to get better. He even shed which he hadn’t done in a while. He passed bowel movements at about 4 days after eating, and it had more shape. He also stopped biting himself and acting erratic around his tank.

Since then, I have gotten him new hides that are more secure and a little tree he seems to love climbing on. I put a cover on one side of the tank for more security in case he is stressed. It has been about a month since we went to the vet, and he is starting to have softer poop (or diarrhea) and strange behavior again. He does wait an appropriate amount of time to poop, which seems good, but he is starting to bite himself again in less than a week of eating. I’ve heard stories about people waking up to their kingsnake dead because they started eating themselves, and I really don’t want that to happen. I know kingsnakes aren't the brightest, but I can't help but think it is more complicated than that.

I tried to make this as short as I could without missing any details, so sorry if this was a long read. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read this!

[Bogertophis]

Hi, & welcome. Did your vet check his stool for parasites (worms)? A snake that bites himself usually does so because of internal discomfort. That could also be explained by his swallowing some of his substrate that is not digestible & having it become impacted -hard to pass. Please do your best to prevent this in the future- feed him on a "plate"- it can be a real plate or a piece of plastic or cardboard that functions as a plate.

The other thing- his super-fast digestion, is something I have SEEN before in a snake that had a large infestation of round worms in his digestive tract. This is fairly easy to treat him for- either ask your vet about this & take a stool sample for him/her to check, or buy some (from a feed store or online source) -a tube of Panacur paste horse dewormer, & stuff some (as much as you can) into the mouth of his pre-killed rodent just before you feed it to him. Expect to see some live worms expelled in his next stool, if I'm right about this. He will likely need this treatment repeated, or like I said, just ask your vet about this. (Vets usually give a higher dosage for this.) Worms are gross, & that would explain all his weird behaviors- the hunger pains because he's sharing his food. Poor snake...

Also: Most experienced herp vets do not dose snakes orally with antibiotics- they're best given by injection, so you might want to see a different vet with more snake experience- You might find this site helpful if you need to find one: https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661

[Reptile$ 4 Life]

My first thought is also parasites.

[mopuim]

Thank you so much for the reply!

This theory does make sense and would explain his behaviors. They did a cloacal wash for him and they said he didn't have any parasites. I am not sure how much of a difference there is from a cloacal wash and a fresh stool sample. I also haven't noticed anything moving or something of the sort in his feces. I brought him back 2 weeks after using antibiotics, and they said nothing looks wrong with him and he seemed better, and his stomach felt better. Also, I am not too sure where the parasites would come from. The only thing I can think of really is that we bought bulk mice and my mom accidentally left it on auto delivery and we got a whole new bag when we were about halfway through the first bag. They were in the freezer outside and that freezer turned off a few times and started to melt, but not all the way. When he started to feel bad, I stopped feeding him those just in case, and haven't for a while (and they're pretty old).

Another thing would be that once he pooped this big blob of pinkish mucus (or so I thought) and it could be unraveled like it was meant to be stringy. I used a toothpick to look through it on a paper plate and nothing moved and I cut through it and nothing really happened. I have a picture of it but I don't thinkI can attach it because this is only my first post.

He doesn't come into contact with any other snakes, but I do have a boa and I do not handle them one after another, and if I do, I wash my hands. My boa seems to be fine as far as I know, even when he was eating the same mice as my kingsnake.

And about the substrate, I do feed him in a separate container, but I think he got the substrate in his mouth accidentally when biting himself in his tank. He begins to bite himself a few days after he poops, like he is hungry.

I'm all for bringing him to the vet again if he needs it, but I will reconsider looking for more options just in case.

Thanks again!

[Bogertophis]

The way snakes get worms is from eating live rodents or other prey that harbors them (like from sub-standard sources- even some pet stores, depending on who they buy them from). Dead (frozen-thawed) rodents don't carry or transmit worms. Even if you feed only f/t prey, it's possible he was fed live at sometime in his past...before you owned him?

Did you show that picture of the "blob" to the vet? I hope...?

[mopuim]

I have had him for over 3.5 years, and he did eat live rodents in the beginning. He has since been eating frozen because the mice were getting too big and they could hurt him. It has been a few years that he has eaten live rodents. He started showing signs of all of this a few months ago in like August or so, and before that he seemed completely normal.

[Bogertophis]

I have had him for over 3.5 years, and he did eat live rodents in the beginning. He has since been eating frozen because the mice were getting too big and they could hurt him. It has been a few years that he has eaten live rodents. He started showing signs of all of this a few months ago in like August or so, and before that he seemed completely normal.

Snakes can have parasites (worms) for a long time before they get so numerous that they cause symptoms- pain (enough to bite himself) and rapid digestion (all those worms are eating his meals).

When a snake has lots of internal parasites, & a heavy dose of de-worming medication is given, it can put the snake's health at risk because the worms will die off wherever they are in the snake's body & can cause blockages that impair their health & needed functions of various organs. That's one reason I actually prefer to dose with Panacur at home, even if it takes several doses...it's safe for snakes, & doesn't kill them all at once as a larger dose of medication from the vet might do. But it's your call- last time I bought Panacur, it was $10-16 for a tube. -You don't need much, if you have a friend with horses...?

As far as that pinkish blob, the more "evidence" you can present to a vet, the more helpful they can be. Snakes are very stoic, & they really need us to be their voice for all symptoms. It's hard for a vet to see many of the subtle behavior changes that we owners see in our pets, so share all you can with your vet. I'm not sure if the cloacal wash would have gotten the same results as just a dose of deworming medication...I doubt it, but talk to your vet about this too.

[mopuim]

About the blob, because of covid we cannot go inside the vet and there is communication through calls and texts (which is inconvenient but I totally understand). I am not exactly sure the picture was sent but I did tell her about it referring it to pinkish mucus. I can still send her a picture though. They did send tests off to a lab, but I am not sure if a cloacal wash is as good as a fecal exam.

(Also, the medicine was Ciprofloxacin and was given 0.15 mls by mouth every other day, if that matters.)

[mopuim]

I will look into the medicines you mentioned. I might go ahead and send an actual fecal example to my vet just to make sure. A lot of those symptoms make sense, and I am very worried about him. Thanks so much for all the help, I really appreciate it.

[Bogertophis]

The medication Ciprofloxacin is an antibiotic- designed to kill bacteria, not worms- I suspect it might have impaired them some, but they'd come back from that. As I said though, most antibiotics are given IM (by injections) to snakes, not orally. Does this vet specialize in reptiles & exotics? What is their training? The meds are very different for reptiles (being cold-blooded creatures) than for dogs & cats- typical pets, so most vets don't do both.

I know what you mean about the COVID hassles...we have to just do the best we can.