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  1. #1
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    Cosmo, not growing and regurgitating

    I have another thread about this guy but I'm going to retire it because its a jumbled mess and I just want to update all my information and get it in one place. Also hoping it'll grab the attention of some fresh eyes.

    Cosmo is my California kingsnake. He roughly a year old, I purchased him from petsmart a year ago for my boyfriend.
    When we first got cosmo, he was 16 grams. I weighed him about once a month to keep track of his growth. He ate like a champ only skipping meals during shed. And yet... Cosmo, at his highest weight, only reached 24 grams at his highest weight. Ill admit... I took an incredibly long time to realize what's wrong with this and I only started to worry around September. But he ate fine so I just let him keep living his little runt life.

    Well, at some point (I truly don't remember when this was now... october? Late September?) I ran out of pinkies. I had an order coming in like 2 weeks or something so to hold myself over i got some from petsmart. I got home and these pinks were on the larger side. But they still lacked fur and were packaged as pinkies. I'd also like to note that I'd read Cosmo should be on fuzzies at his age anyways, and there weren't too much bigger than what he ate, so I fed him one. He struggled a little but got it down. Next day, after work, I discover the pink in his cage. I realize my mistake of giving him something too large, wait about a week, normal sized pinks are shipped and feed him again. This meal stays down.

    I wait one week, and with the 3rd meal, he regurges. Id have to fetch my book but I think I fed him 2 more time after this, he regurged, and I waited longer than a week and tried one more time with a tiny piece of mouse tail. Its nothing at all, but it was smaller than pink and it still didn't stay down. You don't have to tell me, I'm aware now I shouldve been waiting much longer. What's done is done.

    After the mouse tail I rushed him to the vet a couple days afterward. Basically, the vet was confused about his size, and told me there wasn't tons to be done. He suggested a super diluted vitamin booster shot and a tube feed. I mentioned parasites, i got a little vial thing and we started to hope for poop so we could run tests on him.
    Unfortunately, the liquid feed didn't even stay down, maybe 24hrs max.

    After this I called up on the vet, and we decided to wait 2 weeks without bugging him at all. At this point he's lost significant amount of weight. Today, he was 14 grams. On Sunday I fed him, I cut the head off a pinkie. Even though again, it was a small meal, he couldn't keep it down.
    He went back to the vet today... and... it wasn't good news. Hes obviously in significantly worse shape than the first time, incredibly lethargic, hasn't pooed (still getting urates tho). The vet really doesn't seem to think it's parasites, he thinks it's congenital and it's finally just starting to catch up to him. He's so sick now the vet thinks medication would do more harm than good, besides he literally doesn't have any meat anymore to inject anything into. Like... do I seriously just let him die. I don't want to tube feed him again, atleast, not until its been 2 weeks again. But he's so thin... idk what to do.
    1.0 Ball python (bananna pastel enchi) "PASTA"
    ?.? California kingsnake "DUTCH"
    1.0 Cornsnake (albino snow) "BUBBLEGUM"
    0.1 Ball python (piebald) "UMBRA"
    1.0 Borneo short tail python "SHAYMUS"
    1.0 Ball python (blade clown) "PICKLE"
    0.1 Ball python (Russo BEL) "TOOTHPASTE"
    1.0 Ball python (Albino pastave) "YOGURT"

  2. #2
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    So sorry the vet really has little else to offer, but your vet may be right, that it's congenital...that does happen. BTW- most snakes hatch out in the summer time, so actually, if you got him a year ago, he's more like a year & a half old at this point. Meds (injected or otherwise) are very hard on our little snake's bodies, that is true. Especially to just take a wild guess as to what may help.

    Honestly, this snake is a good candidate to euthanize, & I'm so sorry to be the one to say that -I'm a little surprised your vet didn't ask. You will likely find he has expired on his own, one of these days. Obviously, he cannot live on air & water. But having the vet do this- that's hard too. FYI, they need to inject into their heart, it's not a terribly peaceful passing either.

    Back to those early regurgitations, FYI & for future reference: after a snake regurgitates a meal, they should NOT be fed for another 2+ weeks at least, to give them time to replenish their digestive enzymes. Otherwise they just keep up-chucking, as yours did. Those "large" pinkies should NOT have been a big challenge to digest, assuming he had adequate warmth in his enclosure-? It's also possible that he did some sort of internal damage when he regurgitated- it's something best prevented whenever we can, which is why we harp on no handling after they eat, & having the right temps. In the real natural world, snakes don't always get the right size food, & mostly they do just fine. So the deck was likely stacked against this little one from the start, & perhaps from inbreeding (congenital defect). You could chalk it up to "failure to thrive"... & sorry, but it "happens".

    The only other thing you could try at this time is a tiny tube-feed, watered down too...he's been drinking water ok, right? But that tube-feed takes some skill to get right, & best done at home.
    Are you up to it? Do you have the stuff to do this? BTW, what was he tube-fed before? specifically, what was in the slurry he was fed, if you know?
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

  3. #3
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    I don't have the supplies for it, but I'm sure the vet would demonstrate/ help me if I asked how to tube feed. I think it was called carnivore care or something of that sort. It was prepackaged stuff the vet mixed on site.

    Online while researching his condition I found a reptile probiotic powder called "bene-bac". He's been doing good with water by the amount of urates i find, and also ive even got him to drink in my hand today. Its a long shot, but I was thinking if I can get him to take little amounts of this probiotic with water it might help him out with whatever is happening with his gut. Even if just slightly.

    The vet didn't also directly mention euthanasia, but I could tell he was hinting at it. I didn't agree just yet because this snake technically belongs to my boyfriend and is in my care until covid is over with. We agreed we will not let him suffer if we absolutely cannot do anything else.
    1.0 Ball python (bananna pastel enchi) "PASTA"
    ?.? California kingsnake "DUTCH"
    1.0 Cornsnake (albino snow) "BUBBLEGUM"
    0.1 Ball python (piebald) "UMBRA"
    1.0 Borneo short tail python "SHAYMUS"
    1.0 Ball python (blade clown) "PICKLE"
    0.1 Ball python (Russo BEL) "TOOTHPASTE"
    1.0 Ball python (Albino pastave) "YOGURT"

  4. #4
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Good, Carnivore Care is perfect, or you can use what I've always used, Gerbers chicken baby food ("2nd foods"), either one is fine. I think C.C. is a powder you have to mix up, so it might not dissolve very well? I've heard it's good but never used it. I've used Gerbers* since long before C.C. was on the market. *Available @ most grocery stores or Walmart, but do NOT use other brands- most I've looked at (for babies) have a lot of sugar or other inappropriate ingredients for snakes. Gerbers is very basic, plus it's mushy & thins with water very easily. It's always been very well tolerated (digested easily) by snakes of all sizes that I've fed, some as little as 7" long! (hatchling desert glossy snakes)

    I'll send you a link to my instructions for tube-feeding- it's way more detailed than what I was given (from a vet) many years ago, the first time I had to do it. And/or, you can talk to your vet.
    The ONLY way this will help this snake is IF you can only give a tiny thinned amount though. His tummy is small, not used to eating...we don't know why. If water goes down, then you want only a tiny amount of food mixed with water. You only need one jar of Gerbers- once you open it, you'll need very little, so to keep it fresh & not waste it, don't just stick it in the fridge-that won't last, & you don't want to chance making him sick. Instead: spoon out tiny dabs of the baby food onto a plate or waxed paper (empty the jar) & pop into the freezer. Once they're frozen solid, you can store them altogether in a ziploc or other container, & just thaw one at a time (<that's me being optimistic about the need for future tube-feedings). I wouldn't add any Bene-Bac just yet- try just water with a little dissolved baby food first. Again, it's crucial that you don't give much...think like the size of that pinky head he ate. IF he can keep this down & get a tiny amount of nutrition, you could keep doing this about once/week, very gradually to help him regain strength. It will take time, I'm sure you know that. It's about the only chance he has, & personally, it's what I'd do.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

  5. #5
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    If he's still drinking see if he'll take the carnivore care on his own as a slurry. That will be less stressful than tube feeding.

    Also if he does pass have him necropsied. If he does happen to have parasites you need to know since you have a lot of other snakes.

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    GoingPostal (12-03-2020)

  7. #6
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    Re: Cosmo, not growing and regurgitating

    Quote Originally Posted by bcr229 View Post
    If he's still drinking see if he'll take the carnivore care on his own as a slurry. That will be less stressful than tube feeding...
    I've not used that, does it dissolve really well? (I hate it when powdered stuff won't dissolve...) And yes, if so, that's worth a try.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

  8. #7
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    So my vet is going to give me the supplies to tube feed st home. Do I still wait 2 weeks after the regurge or should I just jump straight into getting him some nutrition? If its super watered down? Cuz honestly he's so weak i think the 2 weeks is too much for him.
    1.0 Ball python (bananna pastel enchi) "PASTA"
    ?.? California kingsnake "DUTCH"
    1.0 Cornsnake (albino snow) "BUBBLEGUM"
    0.1 Ball python (piebald) "UMBRA"
    1.0 Borneo short tail python "SHAYMUS"
    1.0 Ball python (blade clown) "PICKLE"
    0.1 Ball python (Russo BEL) "TOOTHPASTE"
    1.0 Ball python (Albino pastave) "YOGURT"

  9. #8
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Re: Cosmo, not growing and regurgitating

    Quote Originally Posted by Dinoanc View Post
    So my vet is going to give me the supplies to tube feed st home. Do I still wait 2 weeks after the regurge or should I just jump straight into getting him some nutrition? If its super watered down? Cuz honestly he's so weak i think the 2 weeks is too much for him.
    A week is probably fine, as long as you keep the amount small & put very little "food" into the mix- keep it watery & hope it helps him. on your vet. Keeping fingers crossed for your snake.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  11. #9
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    Some news. It's not good.

    I did sort of an assist feed last night, not a true tube feed. We got the food into his mouth and he was swallowing/drinking it by himself. Things looked really good. He went most of the day today without upchucking anything at all. ( just to clarify I looked into the cage I wasn't lifting him or anything)

    Well... I checked on him about 1pm and then my family had dinner and I went shopping with my mother. Cosmo seemed to be okay. We returned home and unfortunately, cosmo was on the cold side of his tank, upside down in the corner. He had passed some time while we were away. There will be no more updates for this thread.
    1.0 Ball python (bananna pastel enchi) "PASTA"
    ?.? California kingsnake "DUTCH"
    1.0 Cornsnake (albino snow) "BUBBLEGUM"
    0.1 Ball python (piebald) "UMBRA"
    1.0 Borneo short tail python "SHAYMUS"
    1.0 Ball python (blade clown) "PICKLE"
    0.1 Ball python (Russo BEL) "TOOTHPASTE"
    1.0 Ball python (Albino pastave) "YOGURT"

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dinoanc For This Useful Post:

    Bogertophis (12-04-2020),GoingPostal (12-05-2020)

  13. #10
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    I'm so sorry for your loss, even though it wasn't exactly a surprise. At least he's not suffering any more. Rest in Peace, little Cosmo.

    Have you thought about having a necropsy done by your vet, to get some answers (like whether your other snakes might be at risk if it was something contagious)?
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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    GoingPostal (12-05-2020)

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