Bumblebee Head Wobble Advice?

[AtlasGaia]

Hi there,

I hope everyone is well in these tough times I was wondering if anyone here had any experience with ball pythons with the wobble-head gene/problem who can take me through their experience? I have had ball pythons for around 7 years but I am not as expert as many of the owners on here by any stretch and none of my friends have snakes who I can discuss this with... I've tried to give as much info below as possible, sorry if it's a bit long!:

BACKGROUND: I have two ball pythons - one a regular female ball python (Gaia), I've had her since she was six months old and she is now 7 years old and super relaxed. I then also have a male rescue I saw online who had been left at home by a girl who went to university and didn't want him anymore / left him with her parents. I felt so bad for him I had to go get him and I have now had him for about four years although I don't know exactly how old he was originally, I think probably around 1. (He is called Atlas).

THE PROBLEM: Shortly after getting him I noticed Atlas has a wobbly head and when I handled him he often curled backwards and upside down. Inside his viv, he often seems to writhe around, splashing his water and rolling onto his back. It's hard to tell when you see them everyday, but I wonder if over the years this has been getting worse? In fact, his head doesn't seem to even wobble that much anymore he is just permanently looking at me from an odd, upside down angle. I also worry he might not be getting as much sleep or 'rest' as he spends quite a lot of time outside his hide some days, spiralling around, whereas Gaia just chills for most the day.

I wasn't actually even aware he was a Bumblebee until I started looking into it and then I found some stuff online about how they sometimes have a 'head wobble'. After reading up on this and seeing some videos I am pretty convinced this is the issue... which was a relief to know it wasn't some terrible virus or something but it was also so upsetting to feel I might not be able to do anything about it. My original plan was maybe that I might put the two together one day to see if they had babies but after doing some reading I don't want to risk creating more snakes with this problem

MY QUESTIONS:
- Has anyone else got a BP with these problems/ any experience with this?
- Does anyone know if they are likely in pain?
- Is there any way to alleviate the symptoms?
- I don't think I would have it in me to have him put down or anything unless I was convinced he was in agony and although I have no idea what he is feeling when he is out and about on my lap etc he seems almost happy does anyone recommend this course of action?
- Am I right in thinking breeding from him would be a terrible idea? I saw some guys online saying he breeds his even if they have a wobble but if it's genetic surely it would be better not to carry that gene on? (Even if it isn't guaranteed to appear in the babies, won't they be carrying it?)

P.S - As I know people often check in on here about how the snakes are being kept - Gaia and Atlas have always been kept in the same conditions as each other and I have always followed the advice on the temps at different ends of their vivs, humidity levels and changing their water frequently etc. They have never had any health issues, shed well and have never bitten or struck at me and love being handled. They both eat really well and despite his slightly wobbly approach and sometimes taking longer to get the right end of the rat, Atlas never misses a meal - so I hope this isn't a side effect of any negligence on my part

[bcr229]

Wobble is inherent in the spider gene. Some snakes have it very mildly, others are so severe they have problems eating.

I have a few spider combos and they all wobble to an extent. Excitement/stress, such as at feeding time, seems to make it worse. I have one bumblebee female that gets so excited while eating that she will strike everywhere except where the rat is, so I have to feed her f/t and make sure the rat's nose is right in front of her nose so she can't miss it.

No one knows for certain whether or not the condition is painful, but I would expect it is not since the snakes all eat, shed, breed, etc. and are otherwise healthy.

[AtlasGaia]

Wobble is inherent in the spider gene. Some snakes have it very mildly, others are so severe they have problems eating.

I have a few spider combos and they all wobble to an extent. Excitement/stress, such as at feeding time, seems to make it worse. I have one bumblebee female that gets so excited while eating that she will strike everywhere except where the rat is, so I have to feed her f/t and make sure the rat's nose is right in front of her nose so she can't miss it.

No one knows for certain whether or not the condition is painful, but I would expect it is not since the snakes all eat, shed, breed, etc. and are otherwise healthy.

Thanks so much - it's a relief to hear you have a few snakes like this and they are clearly doing OK / it's not a degenerative thing. I think the thing I'm most worried about is that he might be in pain, but it sounds like this probably isn't the case. I appreciate it thank you!

[Caitlin]

I can share some strategies for managing snakes with wobble that were shared with me by a veterinarian who runs a rescue organization. Her snakes with wobble are mostly Carpet Pythons, but the husbandry tips are the same.

There's evidence that visual stimulation in general, but especially on the vertical plane (upward) can increase wobble symptoms, so keeping the snake in dimmer light, in a tub, or in a low enclosure and/or with lots of heavy vines/branches blocking the upward view may help.

There's also evidence that keeping them at slightly cooler temperatures may help reduce severe wobble. I'm talking about just a few degrees here - don't chill your snake!

Make sure they have heavy, sturdy 'furniture' in the enclosure like rocks or heavy branches - items throughout the enclosure that they can push against to help balance themselves.

When feeding, don't dangle prey or wiggle it too much. Plop it right in front of them, as striking accurately may be rough.

Of course keep stress (activity in the enclosure room, noise) to a minimum, and try to keep visual stimulation minimal.

I can't address the quality of life issue. Humans with balance disorders may not experience pain, but life isn't pleasant during episodes. It sounds like you are doing your very best with him, and he's eating, so that's good. I just don't think anyone can tell you one way or another if he's suffering; you are going to have to trust your relationship with him and your observations of him to tell you if his quality of life has reached an unsustainable place.

Best of luck with your little guy. If my veterinarian friend has any other suggestions, I will pass them on.

[AtlasGaia]

I can share some strategies for managing snakes with wobble that were shared with me by a veterinarian who runs a rescue organization. Her snakes with wobble are mostly Carpet Pythons, but the husbandry tips are the same.

There's evidence that visual stimulation in general, but especially on the vertical plane (upward) can increase wobble symptoms, so keeping the snake in dimmer light, in a tub, or in a low enclosure and/or with lots of heavy vines/branches blocking the upward view may help.

There's also evidence that keeping them at slightly cooler temperatures may help reduce severe wobble. I'm talking about just a few degrees here - don't chill your snake!

Make sure they have heavy, sturdy 'furniture' in the enclosure like rocks or heavy branches - items throughout the enclosure that they can push against to help balance themselves.

When feeding, don't dangle prey or wiggle it too much. Plop it right in front of them, as striking accurately may be rough.

Of course keep stress (activity in the enclosure room, noise) to a minimum, and try to keep visual stimulation minimal.

I can't address the quality of life issue. Humans with balance disorders may not experience pain, but life isn't pleasant during episodes. It sounds like you are doing your very best with him, and he's eating, so that's good. I just don't think anyone can tell you one way or another if he's suffering; you are going to have to trust your relationship with him and your observations of him to tell you if his quality of life has reached an unsustainable place.

Best of luck with your little guy. If my veterinarian friend has any other suggestions, I will pass them on.

Thank you so much for this Caitlin this is such a useful response! I do already just lay the rats out for him so he can get to them at his own pace, but some of these tips re the enclosure make a lot of sense and I will change it accordingly. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me I really appreciate it!