Feeding question

[yankeeslover]

Hello and thanks for reading. Just a quick question for this group on how they feed their boas? I have roughly 9 month old growing boy. When I feed him on his coco husk bedding I lay a paper towel down and then dangle a ft mouse around until he comes out and nails it. The problem is recently he has been getting a little bit food mood whenever I open the tank. I have hooked trained him but that doesn’t always work as last night he nailed me when I took him out, 1st time bitten. Didn’t hurt and was only for second.
I was wondering if I should just drop the mouse in there and have him grab it on his own from now on. I’m just wondering if me reaching my hand in there when I feed him and dangeling the mouse is making him associate my moving hand as food? Any tips would be great. I do take him out couple times per week. Thanks

[dakski]

First, my boas tend not to go after food on the ground/left for them, like my corn snakes will, and even my BP sometimes.

They like to strike and coil their food. Behira, my female BI, who is food crazy, will literally strike the doors of her tank as I go to put food in. However, if I put the rat down 2 inches from her and she doesn't strike immediately, she will sit there all night and I'll have to re-offer a few hours later and re-wiggle it.

I've heard other boas are different, but mine seem to need to strike and coil.

I assume you use tongs, but you said dangling hands, so that confused me. Hands and prey should never be near each other. Bad association and just plain risky.

Secondly, a few things on hook training. I love it and I think it works great. However, you still have to read your snake. Behira is my best example of this, as she can take a minute or two (or longer) to get out of food mode. I wait until she's good and ready, head down, relaxed, out of strike/S position, etc. before I attempt to pick her up. 90% of the time during the day, this happens in seconds, however, at night, when I rarely handle her and offer food (at night) in the dark, it can take longer.

You should feed at night, IMO, but that means they expect food at night. That's good because you will get snakes that eat like clockwork, but you will also have to be more on guard with snakes like Boas and Carpet Pythons, etc. at night.

I've had Behira out after dark and in involves her striking at the doors and me standing back and calming her with the hook. Once she's calm, it's okay, but I should be clear, I keep the room lights on as well. Not sure it matters that much, she still expects food once her tank lights are out and it's night, etc. However, I wanted to mention it.

Behira has nailed me once at about 450-500G and it was my fault and before hook training. I've had no incidents since, nor have I had any with my subsequently acquired boas, but everyone is now hook trained and if I have a doubt, I keep going with the hook.

Feliz (BC) has been known to nail the doors, get three rubs with the hook, and then be fine with me reaching in and picking him up. Jeff (BI) seems similar, but Behira is the most work there.

I've attached my hook training video thread if you haven't seen it as that might be helpful.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ead-with-Video

Another thing is you can coax them out with the hook - the non hook end. Keep in mind that the hook itself can hurt them if they are too big for the hook or you are too aggressive, etc. However, I've had Feliz take the hook handle, wrap it, and then I can take him out and he's like, "Oh, new environment, no food. OK!"

Also, always ensure there is no food smell in the room or on your hands, etc. If you are feeding other snakes = leave him alone. If you touched prey = leave him alone or thoroughly clean.

To summarize:

1. I would think your Boa needs to strike the prey, but it's worth trying leaving it and if that works, even better.

2. Hook training = persistence and confidence and reading the snake. Keep working with with handling and hook should be used every time you are taking him out. Get to know when he's out of food mode.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ead-with-Video

3. Make sure there is no food smell on your hands, arms, etc.


I have one final thought.

If he nailed you when you picked him up, and let go quick, it might not have been a food bite, but a I didn't want to be picked up, or you scared me, bite.

He's still young and getting used to handling, so that's possible, and again, is a read your snake situation.

[Bogertophis]

When I had a boa (BCI) for many years, she always grabbed her f/t rat from the end of my long feeding tongs. Boas have strong feeding responses that only get stronger. You will want to own feeding tongs that are not less than 18"...please be careful...don't handle your boa before or after feeding (for at least a day+)...they stay in feed mode, & when they get big, this is truly DANGEROUS to you.

You never want to feed on a paper towel, as it doesn't take much dampness for the paper towel to stick to the prey & be ingested...NOT good for your snake! Please avoid this...

Never feed "by hand"...your warm & wiggling hand will register as "prey" to a hungry snake...not funny when it's a feeding mistake, as they may not let go. USE TONGS always.

When not feeding, don't be too quick to handle...make sure your boa understands it's NOT food. I never had even one bite...it's do-able! You mentioned hook training, I don't do that- I'm not saying it's not good, it's just not my favorite technique. I use my scent to repel most snakes by blowing air across my hand, but if I see that's not quite enough, I use a quick spray-mist of water to their face. This doesn't hurt anything, but it just "changes the channel" quicker. And no, it's not "mean" either...some of my snakes will even drink from the spray... and they certainly get rained on in the wild.

[dakski]

I agree with Bogertophis on the paper towel. I missed that. Could be very bad.

[bns]

The most likely time you will get bit is at initial contact with a boa. First motion near them and they will often strike. Boas are ambush predators sitting around for days on end waiting for something to come in range. They can be defensive also but observation tells me the initial contact bite is almost always an instinct trigger about eating. Cool video of a wild boa...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRAqBgdic80

So, you need to get past this initial time in order to save your skin. Most people use a hook and call it 'hook training'. I don't know if it so much training as just breaking millions of years of instinct to strike at first movement but it doesn't matter because it works. I suggest you apply this method as your snake matures. If your boa's response is defensive while 'hook training' you need to do something else. (Young boas tend to get defensive)

I learned many years ago (80's) that the best way to pick up a wild snake is to just pick it up without hesitation and not going for the head...(I can't remember the last time I restrained a snake in such manner). I applied this to boas with some adaptation.

For smaller boas I will open the door (or slide out the tub) and without hesitation just shoot a flat hand straight down to their head and keep it centered on their head while touching but not applying pressure. I will follow the head with my flat hand to keep it centered while I use my other hand to scoop the boa out. By doing this immediately it interrupts the strike to feed and keeps the young boa from becoming defensive. I do NOT use this method with adult boas. You're not there yet but initial contact with adult boas is different for each individual in my care.

Good luck with your boa, pay attention to the boa and you adapt to it...not the other way around.

[Bogertophis]

I forgot to mention, there's another method I use when approaching snakes to handle them & to avoid a bite (especially feeding confusion on their part) and that is
"touch". It's like "hook training" only it's my hand, not a hook, & it totally depends on what you're working with as to which method (or combination of methods) works
best.
When I had that large BCI, rarely she'd have a "mood" & would hiss when I opened her enclosure (usually it was time to clean). She'd always stay coiled but would
hiss ferociously...I learned that all I had to do is reach in & gently touch her coils -from "behind" her, never in her face!- she never turned around to try to bite me, and
after a few such pets, she'd stop the hissing & I would just pick her up as usual, & cuddle her to me. She never bit me in all the years I had her...as soon as I picked her up she relaxed & always seemed to enjoy being handled as well as being out. This method requires you to correctly interpret your snake's behavior...the hook is "safer" but I think for my snakes, the recognition of my touch is more significant rather than a cold metal hook, & snakes know quite a lot by touch...that & scent is how they find each other. I have picked up my share of wild snakes without getting bit by merely touching them gently mid-body first, to establish that I'm NOT a predator.

So anyway, it all depends on which of my snakes I'm communicating with: I use whatever method (s) work best for them...some react well to my scent, others need touch or a water spray for the very determined... Nothing wrong with "hook training" either...whatever keeps you from getting bit & your snake out of "trouble".

[WrongPython]

You never want to feed on a paper towel, as it doesn't take much dampness for the paper towel to stick to the prey & be ingested...NOT good for your snake! Please avoid this...

I agree with Bogertophis on the paper towel. I missed that. Could be very bad.

Yeah, DON'T DO THIS. I actually had something like this happen a little while ago, and the only reason it didn't escalate into an impaction/emergency was the fact that the boa in question was a small, ridiculously laid-back individual that didn't mind me reaching into her mouth mid-feed to unhook the paper towel from her teeth. Try using an appropriately-sized plastic lid instead if you feel the need to feed on top of something to keep substrate off your boa's feed. I've been feeding my boas over plastic lids for a while now without issue. I may stop doing so when they get older, though. As it stands, I'm not as concerned about them ingesting the little bit of EcoEarth that clings to their food as much as keeping the EcoEarth out of their teeth. They HATE getting that substrate stuck in their teeth, so I figured I'd save them the trouble (and keep the one from rubbing their face on everything).

For what it's worth, it sounds like you just have a very food-happy boa that takes a while to come out of feeding mode. The strength and duration of boas' feeding response varies between individuals. My two boas are very different in this regard.

My female Sonoran, Adelita, takes quite a while to "turn on" on feeding day, and will only strike if I'm actively jiggling a hot (~90 F) mouse. AFTER she eats, however, she's a total beast. She will go into an ambush position near the spot where I fed her and stalk the spot for up to three days post-feed, and is much quicker to strike at anything food-shaped (ie. a human hand) during this time. Once she comes of out of feeding mode, however, she's very laid-back, to the point that I could just reach in and pick her up on most days.

My male longicauda, Kuzco, is very different. When he registers that it's feeding time and there's food in his enclosure, you can physically see the switch being flipped. He'll suddenly key up, quickly make his way over to wherever his food is, and grab it without a second thought. It doesn't matter if the food's on the ground or being offered from the tongs. There are even days where he'll "kingsnake it" and just start eating as soon as he's grabbed his food, no coiling necessary! All of this makes for a very entertaining feeding session, doubly so now that he's recently taken to feeding off his perch. In spite of this considerable feeding response, though, he's pretty quick to come out of feeding mode, and is typically back to his normal self by the next morning. The switch flips off and quickly as it flips on, so to speak.

I will say that my Sonoran was a little more food-happy when her feeding intervals were shorter. She only eats every 2-3 weeks now, but she ate every 7-10 days when I first brought her home. I'm not sure how often you're feeding your boa, but perhaps this could have something to do with it as well.