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  1. #1
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    Bumps in tail (Not vet advice)

    I want to share my story about a new medical problem with my kingsnake. This may or may not apply to other colubrids or species. This is not a thread to give vet advice or request for vet advice, only sharing my story in hopes of bringing light into health problems like these due to the severe lack of medical literature on reptiles out there.

    Background: Nibbler was an adult when I picked her up at the pet store. She was a surrender of unknown age and sex. Based on her size, length, dull coloring of her scales, possible cataract/old injury in 1 eye, how long her tail is, how she is handled, etc... I'm assuming it's more likely an older female. I could be wrong, the physical condition and such could be the result of poor care from its previous owner.

    She eats well, great temperament, sheds fine and an overall wonderful pet snake. She never laid eggs and I do not breed her. I had her for over 3 years now with her in good health.

    Last week, she started her shed. She pooped before her shed, no food was given during the shed (She won't take it anyway. She used to years ago), and she soaks in her water bowl for days. I attempted to remove her so I can clean the water bowl. She refused to budge no matter what I did. Nibbler is housed in a AP T8 PVC cage, coco husk substrate, with 3 large hides. Temps are at 88-90 F, cool end at 77F, controlled by Herpstat. Humidity is 30-40%, I don't bump it up during a shed because she prefers to soak all day, even when a humid hide or raising humidity is provided.

    About 2 days before her shed, I noticed there were bumps around her tail area. I left her alone, thinking I'm seeing things and could be sausage butt. Nope. She shed and pooped. No stuck shed. Upon closer look, there were several bumps of varying sizes on the sides and top in the tail area. They are not near the cloaca. The bumps started about 1-2 inches away from the vent (From what I can feel and see. These things could be growing internally). It's hard to take the photos showing where the vent is compared to the bumps. The bumps were soft to the touch.

    I took her to a reptile vet on the same day who initially thought they were abcesses. When she used a needle to get the pus out, there was nothing but blood. She stated it is not an infection. She thinks it is trauma related even though I explained to her that she was in her bowl for days, barely moved, and I have nothing sharp or high for her to climb and fall on. She does not eat live so that rules out bites. There were no signs of cuts or burns. The vet noticed how heavy the bleeding was to the point where she recommended keeping her tail bandaged until morning to make sure it clots.

    Otherwise, she is alert and appears to be ok. I have not fed her yet.

    Vet provided antibiotics injections for every 3 days for the next few weeks.

    Her enclosure was disinfected and everything removed except for the hides and water bowl.

    It is at the wait and see stage. I'm all too familiar with these kinds of things. Sometimes we want so badly to think vets, no matter how good they are, can fix everything quickly or have all the answers. Bumps in her tail, she was fine all these years in her enclosure and shed well, I think the shedding was coincidental. I'll post more when I have more information.

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

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  3. #2
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    I've seen 2 things that are similar to this: the first was in a pair of mature museum snakes, not mine (rosy boas) and it was a massive infection of some sort that
    progressed from the tail, on up the spine of the snake (making bumps) before finally killing the snakes. They also had foul-smelling yellowish diarrhea. I forgot what
    it was called, I recall looking it up though...not common, but not unheard of. I'm NOT saying this is what your snake has, btw.

    The other similar thing is one of my large female FL rat snakes had an accident some years ago that damaged the tip of her tail, which had to be removed. Even though
    the damaged part was surgically removed, she gradually got some tail bumps thereafter, which are not any sort of infection at all...more like arthritic changes. (they
    stabilized, with no further progression, & nothing to do about it) So I can see why your vet first thought "infection" & then "trauma" as both are possibilities.

    One afterthought about it being an infection: for the most part, snakes have solid pus, so that could be why your vet couldn't draw any out with a needle...but surely your
    vet knows that? The inflammation would seem likely to engorge the area with blood too, which is what she withdrew, right? Does your snake have anything heavy in the
    enclosure...like a large crock for water? King snakes love to burrow & your temps sound a bit too warm, so maybe your snake pushed her way under the water bowl to
    cool off & her tail tip got stuck there long enough to cause trauma. That would be my best guess.

    My rat snake did something similar, only it was the heavy cage top that sat on her tail too long & caused the damage; I was about to clean her cage...I unlatched the top
    & went briefly to another room, never dreaming this silly snake would push up the top to escape...she wasn't known for pushing the top at all, but she did that time, and
    she came all the way out but stopped with the lid still resting just on her tail tip! Like it didn't even hurt!? The resulting bumps in her tail were hard though, not soft
    like you're describing. It sounds like your snake has some internal bleeding from trauma & hopefully it will all calm down & be OK.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

  4. #3
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    Re: Bumps in tail (Not vet advice)

    Who knows what happened. Could be she did hurt herself last week. The water bowl is a round glass bowl, big enough for her to wrap herself in it. I remember seeing her tail hanging out of the bowl when she soaked. But again, who knows. I guess it matters little at this point anyway. She is on antibiotic injections so if it is an infection, it will take care of that. I'm not sure if the vet knows how pus looks like in snakes, it's hard to know what is happening waiting in my car and not able to see my animals being examined in front of me. So far, she had treated my other exotic pets and seem to know what she is looking for. Of course, it is important for any pet owner to go to the vet armed with some knowledge and knowing when to say no, since some vets out there can be wrong (domestic or exotic vet alike). If the bumps get worse, I already have another reptile vet in mind for a 2nd opinion.

    I really like this snake. Hopefully it will all work out.

  5. #4
    in evinco persecutus dr del's Avatar
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    Re: Bumps in tail (Not vet advice)

    Hi,

    I saw a milksnake once ( when I worked in a reptile shop [ goes misty eyed ] 93 I think it was **sniffles** ) that basically had a concertinad spine from arthritis. Her whole body lokked like;

    ^v^v^v^v^v^v

    They felt soliud like fused bone.

    I also saw a fat cornsnake that looked like it was wearing saddle bags - but they felt soft and pliable.

    What does this are feel like?


    del
    Derek

    7 adult Royals (2.5), 1.0 COS Pastel, 1.0 Enchi, 1.1 Lesser platty Royal python, 1.1 Black pastel Royal python, 0.1 Blue eyed leucistic ( Super lesser), 0.1 Piebald Royal python, 1.0 Sinaloan milk snake 1.0 crested gecko and 1 bad case of ETS. no wife, no surprise.

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  7. #5
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    Re: Bumps in tail (Not vet advice)

    Quote Originally Posted by dr del View Post
    Hi,

    I saw a milksnake once ( when I worked in a reptile shop [ goes misty eyed ] 93 I think it was **sniffles** ) that basically had a concertinad spine from arthritis. Her whole body lokked like;

    ^v^v^v^v^v^v

    They felt soliud like fused bone.

    I also saw a fat cornsnake that looked like it was wearing saddle bags - but they felt soft and pliable.

    What does this are feel like?


    del
    Feels like soft bumps. Some bigger than others (Some you can't see easily without touching it).

    I thought about what Boger meant but no, she could not get under the water bowl because the bowl was on a tile, not on top of substrate.

  8. #6
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    Update

    I had taken Nibbler to 2 different vets since his bumps appeared. Last vet did x-rays and bloodwork which the first vet failed to do.

    It appears to be a cancerous tumor in his tail. The x-rays show that it had ate away some of his tail bone, and due to how close the tumor is to his cloaca and wrapped around his spine, surgery is not an option. Leaving any tumor cells behind will only regrow.

    Without further testing, the vet does not know what type of cancer this is, but he is confident it is an aggressive type, considering how it appeared almost overnight. The bumps have not gotten bigger or smaller, but there is a slight discoloration on the scales, which the vet says it's a sign of necrotic tissue underneath caused by the tumor. Eventually, the tumor will burst and necrose, and/or grows upward toward the rest of the body and into the cloaca. His cloaca is clear so far so he can still poop. When that happens, it will be time to say goodbye. For now, he is eating, drinking, pooping, and overall still being himself. The vet does not think he is aware or in pain yet since he can be handled without issues.

    I wanted to bring closure to this thread in the event someday someone is having a similar problem. And Nibbler is a he, not a she, and he is a big boy. The vet estimate his age to be around 10 years old (I adopted him at 7). We don't know when the tumor will get worse, the vet thinks this type of aggressive cancer will happen quickly, probably within the next few weeks or months.
    Last edited by Cheesenugget; 12-12-2020 at 04:07 PM.

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  10. #7
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    Thank you so much for the update- it's very informative for future reference. That explains why the vet's needle caused so much bleeding. I know that snakes can & do sometimes get cancer, so sorry that this appears to be an aggressive type also. The X-ray & bloodwork proved to be very telling- I'm glad you found a more experienced vet, just sorry it's not a better prognosis. At least Nibbler still has some time left, & I'd do the same thing you are, just wait.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  12. #8
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    I'm so sorry to hear that. I lost a boa to cancer, confirmed by necropsy. Unfortunately there's no good treatment for it in reptiles.

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  14. #9
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    It's been awhile. This will be the last update for Nibbler.

    I tried to login to Tapatalk to post pictures but it didn't work.

    His mass grew double in size since December. He still ate, defecated and was active up until this past week. The tumor grew again, this time it was reaching the cloaca area. Lots of dark discoloration around the mass, and clear liquid started leaking. His tail was swollen so much that the scales were raised. He was not moving as much and he started to pee a lot in small amounts. He was still eating and defecated. This morning, I left the cage door open to observe him. He used to come check out what's going when I open the cage door. While his head did perk up and he flicked his tongue, he didn't move. He laid there even after I closed the door and left him alone.

    There were 2 choices: drain the tail and put him on antibiotics and pain killers or euthanize him. The first choice would give him days, a month the most if the meds work well. The vet is concerned about his kidneys and there was lymph liquid pulled from the tail. Nibbler also lost the use of his tail.

    I went with the 2nd choice. I opted for euthanasia. The tumor is going to burst soon. Putting him through daily injections and another vet visit to get a few days or 2-3 weeks of life wasn't worth it for me. If it gave him months, I would have reconsidered. I was hoping for at least 6 months since diagnosis in December.

    The moment I made that decision, guilt washed over me. I am devastated. Just like Aegon, I was in denial of what is wrong with him. But I really didn't have a chance to begin with, cancer took that decision from me. What I could do is take back what's left of Nibbler and let him pass without further pain and suffering. This tumor will not have him.

    So from beginning to end, Nibbler was able to have about 7 months of quality of life. He was given his favorite (chick) as his last meal. He also had numerous items in his cage for enrichment, including his favorite dig box. He would burrow into the coco fiber and stayed there for hours. In the last few days, he wasn't using it as much or I would carry him into the box. Before we went to his last vet visit, he was laying on his dirt box but not burrowing. At least he had some enjoyment before he went to heaven.

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  16. #10
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    Re: Bumps in tail (Not vet advice)

    So sorry about your loss.

    For what it is worth. I think you made the right choice as painful as I am sure it was.

    Thinking of both of you.

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