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  1. #1
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    New hatchling Ball Python refused frozen thawed

    So I acquired a hatchling ball python on Tuesday 9/1/2020. I apologize in advance for the short essay, but I figure it might be more valuable in helping you understand the situation.

    I live in South Texas so the climate is generally pretty warm here. His enclosure is a 15 quart sterilite tub with two rows of holes on the long ends, and 4 rows on the locking lid. Substrate is Eco Earth. Temperature is provided by a small UTH on one side, with a thermostat set to 89.5F. Temps never vary more than ~1F. It is measured by a large metal probe, drilled into the side about a half inch over the plastic. It is very difficult to budge. Substrate is average about 1 inch in depth, depending on how the snake pushes it around. Ambient temps are room temperature, which here is about low 80s. I verify temps by a analog thermometer (which reads a couple degrees high) and a temp gun. Low side reads approx 82. Humidity averages low 60%. Hides are on both side, though the cool side high does not sit flush due to a tight squeeze by the water bowl. I’m planning on downsizing the water bowl. The hide boxes are not the same design. There is also some fake plants to block out the sides where most foot traffic occurs.

    The snake strongly prefers to stay in the warm side hide. He will briefly come out in the late afternoons sometimes to lay on the cool side, but does not use the hide. He does cruise the enclosure at night starting around 2200 or so. If he sees movement outside the enclosure he will stop moving until he feels it is no longer being observed. He is defensive and will make defensive strikes when I had to move him to clean up some urates. That is the extent of my handling of him. Besides providing water, cleaning up and putting things back in order, or taking measurements with the temp gun, I try to stay out of the enclosure.


    On day 4 of him, I had observed him sitting in the warm hide with his head poking out. I decided to thaw a frozen mouse hopper, warmed up with a blow dryer, and offered it to him. He immediately took interest, followed it but got spooked out and retreated back into the hide. I tried waving it on tongs in front of his hide but me made a couple of defensive strikes and did not coil. I took back the rodent and discarded it after that. I figure the mouse may not have been warm enough, and he may have got sight of me looming over him and that intimidated him.

    The breeder had him on live hoppers before, so I’m not terribly surprised he refused the F/T. My question is should I wait until next Friday 9/14 to offer a live hopper or attempt a live feeding on Tuesday 9/11. Also is there some other aspects of husbandry that I may need to change?

  2. #2
    BPnet Lifer rlditmars's Avatar
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    Re: New hatchling Ball Python refused frozen thawed

    It's alright to go tough love on him and wait an entire week before trying again. If he continues on for several weeks without eating, then throw him a live food item so he doesn't starve, and then try again with FT. Sometimes they just don't switch but that is more the exception than the rule.

    My question for you is do you prefer to keep him on mice? There is nothing wrong with that other than when he gets larger he will require more food items because adult mice are still pretty small. If you are trying to switch him from live to FT anyways, it may be just as easy to try switching him to rat fuzzies and then as he grows, you can still get an appropriate size single item to feed him. Just a thought. Best of luck whatever you decide.

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  4. #3
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    Re: New hatchling Ball Python refused frozen thawed

    4 days is pretty quick to offer in a new home. I would wait a week and offer again. You may want to try cluttering it up a bit more and/or covering three sides of the tub. Also, are you measuring the temp of the tub with the gun or the substrate?

    Also, if you want to feed f/t, don't give up so quickly!
    Last edited by christineho; 08-08-2020 at 04:17 PM.
    /chris

    ---
    0.1 Catahoula Leopard Dog / Zooey
    ---
    1.0 Leopard Gecko / Leonard
    ---
    1.0 Normal Ball Python / Edward
    1.0 Banana Ball Python / Bartholomew
    1.0 Blue Eyed Leucistic Ball Python / Alfredo

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    Re: New hatchling Ball Python refused frozen thawed

    There isn’t much open floor space anymore. I have both hides and I’ve surrounded the tub with small plants to provide even more clutter across the perimeter. A little while ago I put printer paper on the outside perimeter to block out even more.

    The way I use the temp gun is I sweep the small tub with it and watch the temps as I go. The cool side hide is typically low 80s, the warm hide box exterior is typically a couple degrees higher. I haven’t scanned the UTH surface with the gun yet because I don’t want to disturb the snake and I go off the temp probe.

    I was able to do it just now as the snake was in the cool hide. He burrowed the substrate our to lay directly against the surface. Temp probe readout is 88.5 and the temp gun read 87.5. There’s a slight discrepancy

    Should I offer a F/T or P/K rodent next weekend, or offer live?

  6. #5
    BPnet Senior Member Lord Sorril's Avatar
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    Re: New hatchling Ball Python refused frozen thawed

    Quote Originally Posted by F2007KR View Post
    The breeder had him on live hoppers before
    If you trust the breeder: then I would follow the advice given above.
    If you are uncertain about the breeder...then I would focus on getting it to eat anything first, and then worry about switching it to frozen thawed later...
    *.* TNTC

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    So follow up time. I tried to feed him a live hopper mouse. My previous enclosure had some fake plants for clutter and the mouse was hiding and dodging the snake in it. I removed the plants to help make him tracking it down easier. It seemed to help, and at a couple moments he coiled at it but did not strike. I presume the stress of removing the decorations out him off feed.

    I decided to follow the BP 101 sticky as close as possible. I got a 6 quart sterile tub. I did not have access to a flower pot saucer (figures...) but I reused his old hide. It fits him pretty snug and has a low profile on the inside (but not as low). I am using an Acurite for humidity, though the temp seems slow to update. I have another thermometer on the cold side, and tomorrow I will get another thermometer to corroborate with the thermostat.

    The thermostat is using a metal probe drilled into the side of the tub, buried in the substrate under the hide box. It is difficult to move and sits very close to the surface. On the old larger tub, the temps seemed stable. The UTH did not stick as well to this smaller tub with the ridges at the bottom so I did my best. It’s reading a bit higher than the programmed setting so I’m hoping it’ll throttle back soon and get.

    I also put some paper towels on the side. Hopefully they aren’t blocking too much ventilation. Next Thursday, 7 days from now I will attempt another live hopper. It’ll have less room to run away in.

    Any suggestions or comments? I appreciate the help



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    Re: New hatchling Ball Python refused frozen thawed

    I dropped a live hopper into his cage, and by the time I was able to go sit down he was already constricting it. Such a relief!

    I followed the BP Hatchling 101 as close as possible, and I noticed a dramatic change in the animals demeanor. He was no longer so frantic trying to escape when he would explore his cage. He was also less active during the daytime as well.

    Thanks to everyone who offered advice, and thanks to those who contributed to the BP Hatchling 101 sticky. The information provided there works.

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