A new hatchling's body in poor condition, rejected live hoppers, spat out assist feed

[redshepherd]

This hatchling hatched out fairly skinny, so I've already been worried about her condition... she is becoming increasingly wrinkly each day, and not yet "white", still retaining this pink color even after the first shed. The other healthy BEL hatchling I have has already turned white and is robust.

She also had a hard time shedding off the first shed despite the humidity being 95%. The shed would not come off her back and I actually had to help her peel the shed off, even at very high humidity it was very stuck to her body....

She's rejected a live hopper this morning, and then at night again after I've tried offering again. (and yes, she does have a baby hide) Due to her poor condition, I've not been doing much of a waiting game, and hope she can eat as soon as possible. She's a bit weak and wobbly.

I tried assist feeding a mouse pink and got the head down her throat twice, which she spat back out both times. Not sure what else I should be doing for this hatchling!

(Hope nobody replies to "just let her die without trying anything, it's nature"... because this is not nature, it's captivity LOL. If there are methods to improve her chances of eventually start taking food by herself, I will try them and improve her chances of survival.)

[Lord Sorril]

I tried assist feeding a mouse pink and got the head down her throat twice, which she spat back out both times. Not sure what else I should be doing for this hatchling!

There are more invasive methods, but, this is what I do to force feed:

Take a pair of feeding tongs (with dull tips): Use your fingers and push the food item into the snakes mouth (head first of course) and then use the tongs/forceps to continue to GENTLY push the food item down the throat to the point that the snake can completely close its mouth. Put the snake back in its bin and then watch it. At this point there will be two possible outcomes: Option One: the snake swallows and you can rest easy for about three days on one pinky (larger prey is preferable). Option Two: The snake coils around the base and uses the muscles to expel the food item (which is not a true regurge-since it never made it to digestion). If the second option happens: Take a new food item and then repeat the process immediately, but, when it is in the throat: physically uncoil the body, and then use two fingers to gently massage the food item downward--when you can no longer see the prey lump defined---you are finished.

If you have never done this before it can very stressful for both of you. If you have practice doing this: It is quick and painless.

[redshepherd]

Thanks for the detailed info Sorril, I will try that! I managed to get a cut of an adult rat tail down her (that was easier to push down than a mouse pink since it has thick bone), so I'll try this in a couple more days with a pink.

Any idea why she is so wrinkly? It makes me wonder whether she is even drinking water.

[bcr229]

I don't like assist feeding pinkies (whether mice or rat, depending on neonate size) because they're basically just squishy bags of water, and trying to force one down a snake's throat makes a gross mess. Instead, when I assist feed I start with something like the hind leg cut off of a f/t mouse or rat, followed by a whole prey feeder of appropriate size unless the snake is so tiny that the hind leg is a good sized meal on its own. Otherwise, the hind leg should be sized so it's a decent mouthful for the snake.


Have the warmed hind leg and whole prey f/t feeder ready to go. Grasp the snake's head with your thumb and forefinger just behind its eyes, but carefully so that it can still open it's mouth. The snake's neck should be supported by your other fingers.


Take the hind leg and fold it at the hock joint. Insert the folded end of the hind leg into the snake's mouth. This is easier than using a whole feeder because the long leg bone is perfect for prying the snake's mouth open. Push the hind leg back as far as you can.


The hind leg is very hard for the snake to eject, since it will unfold and often gets caught behind the snake's teeth when the snake opens its mouth to spit it out. The snake will try to run away while attempting to spit out the hind leg. That's fine, just let it run through your hands.


When it stops running and starts swallowing the hind leg, quickly sneak the nose of the whole prey feeder into the snake's mouth so it follows the hind leg down the hatch. You may have to support or push on the feeder a bit but the snake should grab and swallow it.


Don't get discouraged if the snake manages to just eat the hind leg on your first few attempts. A small meal is better than no meal. Also wait 7-10 days between assist feedings with the absolute minimum of handling required for daily care to give the snake time to de-stress, especially if you manage to get the snake to eat a whole-prey feeder.

[redshepherd]

Wow, I would have never thought of that folded hind leg trick to keep the snake's mouth/throat open. That is super interesting and helpful, thank you so much for the detailed info!

I have a feeling I won't be able to get the prey down the first few times, but a hind leg is still a much better meal than a tail.

[bcr229]

Wow, I would have never thought of that folded hind leg trick to keep the snake's mouth/throat open. That is super interesting and helpful, thank you so much for the detailed info!

I have a feeling I won't be able to get the prey down the first few times, but a hind leg is still a much better meal than a tail.

Just keep at it and be patient. I really wish I'd taken a digital video of the technique the few times I had to do it, because once I got good at it I could get that hind leg inserted in under 30 seconds, and the snake fed and back in its hatchling tub in about five minutes.

[AzJohn]

Can we get a time line of when it hatched and when you've tried feeding? From what I read she rejected a hopper in the morning, then again at night. Then you tried stressful and invasive act. I would not try feeding that snake again for at least 5 days. Not every snake eats right away. I'd do wait at least few weeks and then try tube feeding first. You can search for a tube feeding video. Tube feeding is much less invasive.

[redshepherd]

Can we get a time line of when it hatched and when you've tried feeding? From what I read she rejected a hopper in the morning, then again at night. Then you tried stressful and invasive act. I would not try feeding that snake again for at least 5 days. Not every snake eats right away. I'd do wait at least few weeks and then try tube feeding first. You can search for a tube feeding video. Tube feeding is much less invasive.

Hatched July 4th. The problem is, if you take a look at the photos, she's in very poor condition and I judged it not suitable to wait much longer. It was stressful sure, but she ate, which means she will live longer for me to try other things. That was more important than worrying about what's stressful or not and the snake simply perishing. Unless you think dying is better than stress, but to each their own.

I obviously would not feed or offer again in at least 5 days.

[AzJohn]

Baby snakes are born with at least a months worth of food from the egg yoke. If this baby has problems, lack of nutrition isn’t the cause. In fact, the stress induced from assist feeding may cause any issues to get worse. The first thing ball pythons do when stressed is go off food. Your attempt at assist feeding probably made it less likely to take food your next feeding. Assist feeding should be the very last thing you try.

A lot of baby snakes skip the first time food is offered, at least 25% maybe more. I’d cover this baby with a towel and leave it alone for at least 5 days, then offer it a hopper. If it doesn’t eat, I’d do the same thing again. If it hasn’t eaten by mid August 5th, I might try tube feeding.

[Bogertophis]

... You can search for a tube feeding video. Tube feeding is much less invasive.

That would be my call too, & fyi, I've pm'd detailed instructions for tube feeding...I've done it successfully many times over the years with a variety of snakes.