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  1. #71
    BPnet Lifer dakski's Avatar
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    Re: White-lipped python

    https://www.amazon.com/Reptiles-Rabb.../dp/B000J5SOZ4


    https://perfectpetproducts.com/SAVE-...ME-7850012.htm

    I'd probably trust the one for reptiles and amphibians more than the all animal one, but I am not sure.

    I just googled "reptile fecal mail in."

    I've heard from others that have done this, but not sure what they used (i.e. test kit).

    I would think do this first and then a vet to safe stress, but it also depends how worried you are and how comfortable you are with your vet and their expertise with reptiles.

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  3. #72
    BPnet Veteran Awesomethepossum's Avatar
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    Re: White-lipped python

    Quote Originally Posted by dakski View Post
    https://www.amazon.com/Reptiles-Rabb.../dp/B000J5SOZ4


    https://perfectpetproducts.com/SAVE-...ME-7850012.htm

    I'd probably trust the one for reptiles and amphibians more than the all animal one, but I am not sure.

    I just googled "reptile fecal mail in."

    I've heard from others that have done this, but not sure what they used (i.e. test kit).

    I would think do this first and then a vet to safe stress, but it also depends how worried you are and how comfortable you are with your vet and their expertise with reptiles.
    Thank you for your help

    I saw that first one and had considered it, still looking at second link. Not sure if it covers the more microscopic parasites (ex: flagellates, which I've heard these imports can be loaded with) .

    He's eating drop fed, but without gusto. Has only taken small hamsters, one a week. Stool isn't consistent/familiar enough to me, for me to say "looks good/normal".

    Ball python craps seem pretty straight-forward. Not sure if hampster makes their poo different...I know quail does...

    IF it's a GI thing, I fear stress of vet visit could exacerbate things. Put him off food longer, etc. He isn't a bulky dude.

    I HAVE Panacur and Flagyl (liquid form, measured for reptile use) and syringes and such but I don't want to fool around with it without knowing.

    I'm going to look more at the second link. I'm hoping he sheds soon and gives me something to work with. Doubt he'd like a cloacal flush.

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    Last edited by Awesomethepossum; 08-25-2020 at 07:24 PM.

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  5. #73
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    My 2 cents: stress for an already-stressed import does matter. Personally, I'd first try one of those mail-in tests rather than a vet visit to see if you can get him healthier,
    stronger, & eating for a while first & put off a vet visit until he is much more stable & can better handle it. I've used both Panacur & Flagyl in the past, & both seem
    quite safe. They also usually improve the appetite, and that's a real "win".
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  7. #74
    BPnet Veteran wnateg's Avatar
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    If he's going into shed, that's probably why he's not eating. Considering he was eating, albeit hamsters only, weekly, sounds like just a picky import to me. Have you tried a hamster and rat combo?

    Though I guess a mail-in fecal couldnt hurt, so.
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  9. #75
    BPnet Veteran Awesomethepossum's Avatar
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    Re: White-lipped python

    Quote Originally Posted by wnateg View Post
    If he's going into shed, that's probably why he's not eating. Considering he was eating, albeit hamsters only, weekly, sounds like just a picky import to me. Have you tried a hamster and rat combo?

    Though I guess a mail-in fecal couldnt hurt, so.
    These are 10g-ish hamsters. Hasn't taken the slightly larger ones for me. But yeah once a week.

    I've tried scenting rat pinks and small rat pups with hamsters and/or quail (rinsing off rat smell, thawing with the quail/hamster, etc) and leaving both in for him to select from (inclusing the hamster and quail). If he takes, it's always the hamster. Little :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r:.

    It's just that, he goes off feed at the immediate hint of an upcoming shed. Slight dimness in some patches, a small whistle during handling (when I initially take him out). Not hungry, then takes forever to shed.

    Haven't seen him go blue, but it's been 2 weeks now since those initial signs. He's been very reclusive this entire time as well, even at night.

    Temps still solid 88-90 and 82 on cool side, cooler at night. Humidity is 85-95 for shedding. His last shed was in June, and took 2 1/2 weeks without food. Very picky.

    I'm hoping it's just the shed, but I wish he's take better, larger prey items, and with more enthusiasm (in general). Just doesn't seem like there's much progress, which is why I worry something else is going on (or I'm just overthinking it).

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  10. #76
    BPnet Veteran Awesomethepossum's Avatar
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    Re: White-lipped python

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    My 2 cents: stress for an already-stressed import does matter. Personally, I'd first try one of those mail-in tests rather than a vet visit to see if you can get him healthier,
    stronger, & eating for a while first & put off a vet visit until he is much more stable & can better handle it. I've used both Panacur & Flagyl in the past, & both seem
    quite safe. They also usually improve the appetite, and that's a real "win".
    Thank you- that's what I'm leaning towards doing. I saw a post in a WLP group, of someone taking theirs to the vet for import-related stomatitis (GI issues) and the poor thing died after the vet exam. Then I read the resulting discussion about how easy it is to kill these guys with stress. That's what kind of set the caution in for me.

    Whatever gets the job done with the least negative impact

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  12. #77
    BPnet Veteran Awesomethepossum's Avatar
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    Re: White-lipped python

    I didn't want to bother him again today but I needed to get a weight on him. He's 174 grams. And also looks a lot brighter today.

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    Last edited by Awesomethepossum; 08-26-2020 at 03:37 PM.

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  14. #78
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Re: White-lipped python

    Quote Originally Posted by Awesomethepossum View Post
    Thank you- that's what I'm leaning towards doing. I saw a post in a WLP group, of someone taking theirs to the vet for import-related stomatitis (GI issues) and the poor thing died after the vet exam. Then I read the resulting discussion about how easy it is to kill these guys with stress. That's what kind of set the caution in for me.

    Whatever gets the job done with the least negative impact

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
    It happens way too often, IMO- vets are often more heavy-handed than I like to see- they're determined to "get the job done" & don't have much time, but snakes are fragile when it comes to this kind of stress, & when you couple that with injections or other things they may see as necessary, I would just personally try to get him stronger first, & maybe you'll never even need the vet's help. If it means taking a guess on a fairly-safe dose of Panacur or Flagyl to get his appetite up & his GI tract functioning better, that's what I'd do. I find that "TLC" works best for snakes- they survive all sorts of things in the wild, but few things are more stressful than vet care for an imported snake.
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 08-26-2020 at 07:42 PM.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  16. #79
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    I think the main difference is that at home, you know the snake better, and you can take your time. I've never had a snake die from "the stress of tube-feeding" either, incidentally, & I've saved quite a few snakes of all sizes (including tiny 7" glossy snake hatchlings) with tube-feeding.

    Snakes react to how they're handled...gently- versus the firmness usually practiced by vets. When I do something like a tube-feed, as I've often told people, it's a give & take...not too pushy, not too fast. Snakes grabbed firmly at the head & neck think you're a predator, not their friend, whereas a lighter & slower touch can still get the job done with a whole different message. When you throw in injections by the vet, it's no wonder some snakes don't survive.

    Vets mean well...I believe that...but they put medicine before 'husbandry' techniques whereas I believe in the reverse order. Your touch can reassure a snake...I've handled lots of wild snakes, & they generally know I'm not a threat to them, even if I do something they don't like. You love this snake, so YOU should be the one doing the handling...the snake will feel the difference. Medications used go furthest on a snake not fighting for it's life (not feeling so stressed). True healing is about more than drugs.
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 08-27-2020 at 12:51 PM.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  18. #80
    BPnet Veteran Awesomethepossum's Avatar
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    Re: White-lipped python

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    I think the main difference is that at home, you know the snake better, and you can take your time. I've never had a snake die from "the stress of tube-feeding" either, incidentally, & I've saved quite a few snakes of all sizes (including tiny 7" glossy snake hatchlings) with tube-feeding.

    Snakes react to how they're handled...gently- versus the firmness usually practiced by vets. When I do something like a tube-feed, as I've often told people, it's a give & take...not too pushy, not too fast. Snakes grabbed firmly at the head & neck think you're a predator, not their friend, whereas a lighter & slower touch can still get the job done with a whole different message. When you throw in injections by the vet, it's no wonder some snakes don't survive.

    Vets mean well...I believe that...but they put medicine before 'husbandry' techniques whereas I believe in the reverse order. Your touch can reassure a snake...I've handled lots of wild snakes, & they generally know I'm not a threat to them, even if I do something they don't like. You love this snake, so YOU should be the one doing the handling...the snake will feel the difference. Medications used go furthest on a snake not fighting for it's life (not feeling so stressed). True healing is about more than drugs.
    I agree with what you've said. I'll do what I can from home, let him go through his shed (which will hopefully be soon). Then I'll go from there.

    When he's in a "not today" mood he'll literally fling urate/pee everywhere just by me taking the lid off of his tub. I can't imagine how he'd handle a vet visit.

    I understand that he's an import. Stress, and picky feeding can be an assumable risk. But if all husbandry parameters are correct and he shows limited progress after his shed, I have the tools to take some careful action, and see if I can stimulate his appetite. I just want to rule out parasites as a contributing factor here.

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