Thoughts on cinnamon and enchi being allelic?

[dr del]

Hi,

I fist saw this on one of mutation creations videos and then on one of robert barracloughs where he sowed a few interesting animals regarding it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvqDE9TNkis

Shared as a link as I haven't managed to ask him if it is ok to share off his youtube page.

I wandered on to morph market and all I could see to ginsay it were two examples labled super enchi black pastel. And nothing I could see screamed definate black pastel.

Have I simly not been paying attention and this has been known for a while?


del

[bcr229]

If they are it's the first I've heard of it.

[dr del]

Me too,

But when you go looking on world of ball pythons the only super cinny/ blackpastel is one that we already know is impossible.

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...uper-cinnamon/

Not a single super cinny or black pastel with enchi in it at all.

I think this is the video I first heard it;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B-2d4BC10Y

**ETA** It is at 19:30 he mentions it.

I honestly don't know what to think about it right now.


del

[asplundii]

This is a conversation that has come up in about the last three or so months. It is... interesting but very few of the people weighing in have done what I would call definitive breeding trials to prove it out. Which is funny because you would thing a BlkComplex Enchi animal bred to a normal normal or three would be child's play

[rufretic]

This is very interesting and the first I've heard of it. But what's really interesting is I just recently read a post from a breeder, can't remember where but I'm guessing facebook, but it was about his blanchi project I think he called it, or black pastel enchi project. It relates to this specifically because the jist of his post was that he's been trying to make more of them but he just can't seem to hit a black pastel enchi again and he said he'd tried for the last 3 years or something like that but can't hit it. He listed a bunch of pairings which I can't remember now but I believe they were all using his black pastel enchi. Now that would make a lot more sense than just being unlucky. The black pastel enchi wouldn't be able to reproduce itself unless it got one or the other genes from the other parent if they are allelic. This post would almost be proof, he listed quite a few pairings he tried over the years and did not hit one black pastel enchi. I just wish I could remember where I read it so I could confirm, but this would definitely make sense and I'm sure this breeder would love to realize they are allelic as well so he could understand why he has been so 'unlucky' lol.

[bcr229]

Now everyone with cinnamon, black pastel, and enchi in their collections is going to try to prove this out.

[rufretic]

Now everyone with cinnamon, black pastel, and enchi in their collections is going to try to prove this out.

Haha, you're so right! I'm already waiting for a clutch from enchi pastel DG x cinnamon genetic black back and I was planning to hold back an enchi cinnamon. Now I'm really hoping I hit one because I'll definitely be keeping this in mind when I choose my future pairings, not just to prove it out but also so I don't make impossible to hit goals lol.

[rufretic]

My only issue with this is, how the heck has this not already been proven with such common morphs?! It makes you wonder how many other crazy genetic secrets are yet to be discovered lol.

[bcr229]

My only issue with this is, how the heck has this not already been proven with such common morphs?! It makes you wonder how many other crazy genetic secrets are yet to be discovered lol.

Often with the allelic combos the offspring don't look like the parents. I mean, who would have thought that a super lesser/super mohave/lesser mohave/etc would be a white snake with blue eyes if you'd never seen one before? Or a super cinny/super black pastel/etc would be a solid gray/black snake? If you look at a cinnamon enchi or black pastel enchi they look as you'd expect: a mix of the two morphs. Super enchi looks like a reduced enchi, not something wildly different from what you'd expect.

Then there is proving it. It might be easiest to pick out a super enchi + cinnamon or black pastel in a litter, because the other super forms are solid colors which could mask the enchi gene.

[asplundii]

I just recently read a post from a breeder, can't remember where but I'm guessing facebook, but it was about his blanchi project I think he called it, or black pastel enchi project. ... I just wish I could remember where I read it so I could confirm

If you do locate it, please link here. I would be interested in seeing what all he has done