Potential RI, reg vet closed

[Ksophiat]

I suspect my ball has an RI. He is around 3yrs old. He is showing some symptoms but not all so I think it is pretty early. My herp vet is CLOSED because of the whole covid-19 thing and there is no info on when they will re open. I live in a small town and all of the other vets in my area are family pet cat/dog places that do not treat snakes. I may be able to get him in there on an emergency basis if I push.


Anyways, he has been making the popping wheezing noises and occasionally opening his mouth but no excess saliva or bubbles. I have checked his mouth a couple times and it looks nice and healthy, again no visible bubbles or excess saliva. Besides the wheezing and occasional mouth opening he is behaving normally. He is active, eating, properly shed, shiny scaled and bright eyed. Lots of tongue flicks. Last time I had him out he was sitting on my stomach, opened his mouth real wide and made a pretty forceful exhale that almost mimicked a sneeze which was pretty weird. His normal husbandry is 50-60% humidity 65% after misting. Ambient temps 75-85 with a warmer area for basking and sleeping if he chooses. Since he has shown symptoms I have sanitized everything and bumped up both so his temps are around 85-95 and his humidity 65-75%. I have read conflicting opinions on raising or lowering the humidity but I believe the cause of the RI was lower humidity, it gets really low around here in winter. So that is why I raised it. It seems to be helping, he is still making noises but not opening his mouth as much. Minimal 'star gazing' but he is a periscope as it is so that is pretty normal for him.


My question is, although usually I would just take him just to be sure, with the only herp vet around closed and no severe symptoms (bubbles and saliva) will the temp and humidity adjustments be enough to either help him fight it off himself or keep him comfortable and not advancing until the vet re opens? Is there anything else I should be doing? I have read about the f10 treatments and also the vicks. I am hesitant about both but especially the ladder.


Also he got sausage butt about two weeks ago. Hadn't pooped and was full of gas. Warm water and a light massage and he blew out the longest fart I've ever seen and a big poop right after. I figured it was a bad rat, but have since read some accounts of the open mouth breathing causing them to swallow air and get gas... So maybe its related? He has pooped since and it has not happened again.


Sorry for the long post! I haven't posted here before and have only lurked.

[Bogertophis]

I've heard of the F10 fog but never used it...personally, probably would not try it without a vet endorsing it, as it's an off-label use. Read the F10 label & ask yourself
if you'd put it in YOUR lungs? While I've seen someone like Brian Barczyk promote using this, bear in mind that he is a commercial breeder, whereas I'm probably way
more attached to my pets than he is to his "inventory"...ok?

And Vicks...never! That IS TOXIC for snakes & even for humans if used incorrectly (only supposed to be use EXTERNALLY!)- someone else asked about that very
recently- I wish everyone would quit sharing that awful advice...

I agree with bumping up the temps a few (like 3) degrees, but I would stay lower than 92*...95* is pushing it, the normal upper temp for BPs is 90*.

Your herp vet is likely available by appt'mt...I'm in a small town too & all vets are open, but you need to call first & discuss how they want you to handle things.
For example one local vet is meeting patients in the parking lot, & the assistant takes the pet inside while the owner waits outside.

It's possible your snake is coming down with an RI...it's also possible his nostrils are plugged up (old shed skin, or cage debris), no way we can say for sure here, but if you aren't seeing a bubbly mouth, I'd probably wait & see if it gets worse, since some snakes just make some minor noises or open their mouth to yawn, etc.

BTW,

[Ksophiat]

So the day after making this post I had Bean out and he came right up to my face and opened his mouth real wide (I swear he was trying to show me) and I spotted some slime. I could not get ahold of my regular vet, I think someone in the office may have come in contact with the virus because they just shut down completely. But I called around and found a vet that treats reptiles in the next town over so I made an appt to take him in.
The appointment was super weird with the social distancing. I had to hand him off to the receptionist in the parking lot and she gave me an ipad to be able to communicate with the vet while she looked him over. She said it looks like an RI and hes a little bloated with gas in the butt again (not nearly as bad as his first sausage butt episode- just enough to make his bottom half a little squishier than normal underneath). She gave me Baytril(surprise surprise) and said it will have the added benefit of treating any sort of G.I. issues if there are any going on. I didn't want to wait for a cuture to come back since I can tell he is uncomfortable, hopefully we will not have to go back and get a swab if the Baytril doesn't help.
Now my rainbow boa got an RI way back before we had Bean (maybe 6 years ago) and I treated him with injections. Bean is smaller than he was at that point so she gave me the Baytril as an oral medication. I thought it would be easier and less stressful for him than pricking him since he is such a laid back snake but boy was I wrong. He literally forces his mouth closed when I get near him with the qtip or syringe. It takes 2 of us to get it in there and once I do he BITES DOWN on the damn thing so I struggle to get it back out of his mouth.
Anyways he got his 3rd(out of 7) dose today and I'm not seeing much improvement. I think he may be less bubby but its hard to tell since some of the meds bubble back up. He opens his mouth like crazy after the dose but I think thats just cuz he doesn't like it.
I'm really hoping he starts to show some improvement in the next two days. If not I think I am going to take him back in... I hate to see him suffer.
I'm wondering if the oral Baytril can be administered by syringe with the same dosage or if they aren't interchangable. I'm going to call the vet in the morning and ask. I think injections would be less stressful for him. I've read about it stinging under the skin and also possibly causing necrosis? But I never had any issues like that with my BRB.

[Ksophiat]

Also, funnily enough she actually recommended ordering some F10 online to use for cage cleaning and to add to the water in his fogger. She said as long as its the proper concentration it can be very helpful for treating and preventing RIs. I'm probably going to get it for the purpose of cleaning, I still don't know how I feel about fogging him with it, but it was interesting to hear an actual vet endorse it. And yes, the Vicks sounds like a terrible idea someone cooked up because they didn't want to pay a vet bill.
Thanks for the welcome!

[bcr229]

Find an exotics specialist, antibiotics should be injected not given orally to snakes. Also Baytril has been around so long that a lot of RI's are resistant which is why a culture should be done.

[Ksophiat]

My exotic vet is closed because of covid, thats why I had to take him somewhere else. I live in a small town and usual herp vet is the only one around. Should I continue the course of Baytril and take him back if he doesn't improve or should I book and appt and get a culture done now just to be sure?
As for the Baytril, I've read a lot of varying opinions. Is the necrosis thing while injecting Baytril a myth? It never gave me any problems with by BRB.
Is it possible for me to switch his dosing to injections? Would the dose remain the same?

[bcr229]

No I would never take an oral medication and inject it, as the dosages between the two are likely different.

[Bogertophis]

No I would never take an oral medication and inject it, as the dosages between the two are likely different.

Not to mention the fact that plenty of things might be added to a medication to make it suitable (not too harsh) for digestion, but those same ingredients do NOT belong in the creature's blood-stream...& could prove deadly.

[vivi]

If its meant or prescribed to be taken orally, take it orally.

[Ksophiat]

Okay, I'm going to continue giving him the Baytril but make an appt (hopefully for tomorrow) to get a culture done since he isn't showing any improvement.