Potential new BP owner

[kwjones001]

Hi. 1st post, and I don't even own a snake yet.

My wife and I both like snakes, but didn't really want one due to live feeding. We occasionally have pet rats. My wife took in a rescue snake when she was in high school but rehomed it because the feeder rats looked like her pet rat. I volunteered at a zoo in Oregon in my early teenage years in the '80s and loved working with the BPs. JR was my favorite. He was a 4' normal. He also had a scar on his back from being bitten by a rat.

We've been to a few local reptile expos. My son has a bold banded mack snow leopard gecko (Bandit). My daughter has a russian tortoise (Boris). We also live on a small farm with miniature horses, Nigerian Dwarf goats and are getting back into chickens again this year. The closest I've come to owning a snake was my snowflake morray eel in my saltwater aquarium, and now that I think about it, a snake would probably be cheaper than getting back into a saltwater aquarium.

We went to another expo last weekend looking for dubia roaches to start a colony to feed the gecko. Getting tired of buying mostly dead meal worms from PetCo. My son wanted a tegu until he held one, and now preferrs blue tongued skinks. My daughter was bitten by the bug. Specifically she wants the ivory male she was holding, but I didnt' have the cash or the setup at the time. I won't do another impulse buy. That's how we got Boris. My wife felt bad that we bought the gecko for my son but weren't planning on getting anything else. Since then I've had to learn a lot about Russioan tortoises and am going to be building a dig proof 8x8 outdoor enclosure for him this spring. My rule is you have to have a habitat ready for them and know what their care needs are before you can bring one home. My daughter's birthday is coming up next month. She has been showing that she is responsible enough to take care of the tortoise. She can even forage suitable food for him from our farm. My wife and I found out about frozen/thawed rats which really changed my wife's opinion on owning a snake, so we've been doing research because we know we will be the primary caretakers. My wife grew up breeding dogs, so she's fascinated by all of the genetics behind morphs.

I recently contacted someone on Craigslist that is downsizing and looking to sell a 4 year old female pastel with a 40 gallon breeder tank. I have only asked some basic questions so far such as, price, weight, last time she fed, what is she currently eating, how often, where is he sourcing her rats, when did she last shed, any respiratory issues, and last vet visit. Are there any other questions I need to ask before we go look at it this weekend? He keeps multiple reptile species.

Currently he said she is eating 1 large rat every 10 to 14 days. She does not like frozen thawed. No idea how much she weighs. My guess is around 1500 grams. She doesn't look overweight or underweight in the picture he sent. Last shed was about 4 weeks ago. Has not been to a vet recently. Never had mites or respiratory issues. Are there any red flags here?

IF my daughter likes her enough, and I decide to bring it home with the enclosure, I need to get the following:
Bedding - I just used my last bag of cypress mulch for Boris the tortoise, so need to pick up one anyway. It looks like she's on Reptibark or some coco substrate.
UTH and thermostat - unless it comes with the enclosure. Might pick up a spare to have on hand.
A slightly larger hide - He sent me a pic and she's so large the hide lifts off of the substrate, but she likes it.
Cold side hide
Reptile cleaning supplies - need some suggestions for disinfectant, etc. I buy most of my equipment at That Pet Place in Lancaster, PA.
Feeding tongs
Heat lamp for warming thawed rats - Optional. I have plenty of ziploc bags, buckets and hot water.
Frozen rats - Medium to large
Digital hydrometer
A few decorations - Branches for climbing, rocks for rubbing (pretty sure these well come when I have to dig the trench to install the dig barrier for the tortoise enclosure), plastic plants for bulldozing.
I have a large 12" terra cotta dish that's too big for Boris' winter enclosure. Can I use it for water, or should I use something different?
What am I missing?

Environmental Issues:
The office/rapidly growing reptile room is part of the addition that was built on to the original old farm house and is on the southwest corner of the house. One window facing west. It's about 8x12. We have floor board radiator heat under the window and it wraps around the short wall as well. With the door shut and the A/C vent closed, it stay's pretty warm in the winter. The tortoise has his open enclosure with UVB and heat lamp in this room for the cold weather months and we're moving the gecko from the kitchen into the room this weekend. The only problem I'm running into is humidity. I essentially would have two desert dwellers and a tropical dweller in the same room. I have a few one gallon ultrasonic room humidifiers that get ran a lot in the winter time. Sometimes the humidity in the house during the winter months gets drier than Death Valley. Literally. We can get down to 15% when it's single digits outside. I was going to put a humidifier on a humidity controller, or should I focus more on just misting the substrate in the snake enclosure and partially covering the screened top?

During the summer I have the opposite problem. It's an old farm house. Some of the walls probably have newspaper instead of insullation. The A/C was added years after the house was built and struggles to cool the house in the summer. We tend to leave the thermostat at 75 and hope it really doesn't get above 80. I'm a West coast kid and the Mid-Atlantic humidity kills me every year. Other than installing a small window A/C unit, how do most people control high heat and humidity?

Is it ok ot keep the windows open on those rare days when the weather is absolutely perfect?

The floor in the room is carpeted. I don't have any shelving or a stand for a 40 gallon breeder. Do I need to elevate the tank off of the floor for a UTH? I'm not opposed to makeing a quick and dirty stand with a few boards and patio block to get it off the floor if needed until I get a rack or stand for the enclosure. I need to set up a rack anyway to start seedlings for the garden and I want to grow food for the tortoise year round.

There are a few more expos coming up in my are soon and Repticon Baltimore is Memorial Day weekend, so I don't feel pressured to get this particular snake.

[Moose84]

Hi. 1st post, and I don't even own a snake yet.

My wife and I both like snakes, but didn't really want one due to live feeding. We occasionally have pet rats. My wife took in a rescue snake when she was in high school but rehomed it because the feeder rats looked like her pet rat. I volunteered at a zoo in Oregon in my early teenage years in the '80s and loved working with the BPs. JR was my favorite. He was a 4' normal. He also had a scar on his back from being bitten by a rat.

We've been to a few local reptile expos. My son has a bold banded mack snow leopard gecko (Bandit). My daughter has a russian tortoise (Boris). We also live on a small farm with miniature horses, Nigerian Dwarf goats and are getting back into chickens again this year. The closest I've come to owning a snake was my snowflake morray eel in my saltwater aquarium, and now that I think about it, a snake would probably be cheaper than getting back into a saltwater aquarium.

We went to another expo last weekend looking for dubia roaches to start a colony to feed the gecko. Getting tired of buying mostly dead meal worms from PetCo. My son wanted a tegu until he held one, and now preferrs blue tongued skinks. My daughter was bitten by the bug. Specifically she wants the ivory male she was holding, but I didnt' have the cash or the setup at the time. I won't do another impulse buy. That's how we got Boris. My wife felt bad that we bought the gecko for my son but weren't planning on getting anything else. Since then I've had to learn a lot about Russioan tortoises and am going to be building a dig proof 8x8 outdoor enclosure for him this spring. My rule is you have to have a habitat ready for them and know what their care needs are before you can bring one home. My daughter's birthday is coming up next month. She has been showing that she is responsible enough to take care of the tortoise. She can even forage suitable food for him from our farm. My wife and I found out about frozen/thawed rats which really changed my wife's opinion on owning a snake, so we've been doing research because we know we will be the primary caretakers. My wife grew up breeding dogs, so she's fascinated by all of the genetics behind morphs.

I recently contacted someone on Craigslist that is downsizing and looking to sell a 4 year old female pastel with a 40 gallon breeder tank. I have only asked some basic questions so far such as, price, weight, last time she fed, what is she currently eating, how often, where is he sourcing her rats, when did she last shed, any respiratory issues, and last vet visit. Are there any other questions I need to ask before we go look at it this weekend? He keeps multiple reptile species
I am ALWAYS skeptical about "downsizers...." You would be better off buying a hatchling from a reputable breeder and getting the animal onto FT. Buying a snake from a person with multiple other reptiles also scares me to death. Who knows what kind of care they have been providing.

Currently he said she is eating 1 large rat every 10 to 14 days. She does not like frozen thawed. No idea how much she weighs. My guess is around 1500 grams. She doesn't look overweight or underweight in the picture he sent. Last shed was about 4 weeks ago. Has not been to a vet recently. Never had mites or respiratory issues. Are there any red flags here?
Red flag right there. If you aren't willing to feed the animal live prey then a four year old animal that has only been fed live it's entire life will more than likely not eat at all when all you are trying to feed is FT. Also, a live, large rat for a female ball python is asking for problems if that is indeed what she is being fed. That rat can do serious damage to that animal. Anything above a smallish medium rat gets pre-killed for BPs in my collection. I don't even let 7 ft boas eat live rats that size.. They can be vicious little creatures.

IF my daughter likes her enough, and I decide to bring it home with the enclosure, I need to get the following:
Bedding - I just used my last bag of cypress mulch for Boris the tortoise, so need to pick up one anyway. It looks like she's on Reptibark or some coco substrate.
UTH and thermostat - unless it comes with the enclosure. Might pick up a spare to have on hand.
A slightly larger hide - He sent me a pic and she's so large the hide lifts off of the substrate, but she likes it.
Cold side hide
Reptile cleaning supplies - need some suggestions for disinfectant, etc. I buy most of my equipment at That Pet Place in Lancaster, PA.
Feeding tongs
Heat lamp for warming thawed rats - Optional. I have plenty of ziploc bags, buckets and hot water.
Frozen rats - Medium to large
Digital hydrometer
A few decorations - Branches for climbing, rocks for rubbing (pretty sure these well come when I have to dig the trench to install the dig barrier for the tortoise enclosure), plastic plants for bulldozing.
I have a large 12" terra cotta dish that's too big for Boris' winter enclosure. Can I use it for water, or should I use something different?
What am I missing?

Environmental Issues:
The office/rapidly growing reptile room is part of the addition that was built on to the original old farm house and is on the southwest corner of the house. One window facing west. It's about 8x12. We have floor board radiator heat under the window and it wraps around the short wall as well. With the door shut and the A/C vent closed, it stay's pretty warm in the winter. The tortoise has his open enclosure with UVB and heat lamp in this room for the cold weather months and we're moving the gecko from the kitchen into the room this weekend. The only problem I'm running into is humidity. I essentially would have two desert dwellers and a tropical dweller in the same room. I have a few one gallon ultrasonic room humidifiers that get ran a lot in the winter time. Sometimes the humidity in the house during the winter months gets drier than Death Valley. Literally. We can get down to 15% when it's single digits outside. I was going to put a humidifier on a humidity controller, or should I focus more on just misting the substrate in the snake enclosure and partially covering the screened top?

During the summer I have the opposite problem. It's an old farm house. Some of the walls probably have newspaper instead of insullation. The A/C was added years after the house was built and struggles to cool the house in the summer. We tend to leave the thermostat at 75 and hope it really doesn't get above 80. I'm a West coast kid and the Mid-Atlantic humidity kills me every year. Other than installing a small window A/C unit, how do most people control high heat and humidity?

Is it ok ot keep the windows open on those rare days when the weather is absolutely perfect?

The floor in the room is carpeted. I don't have any shelving or a stand for a 40 gallon breeder. Do I need to elevate the tank off of the floor for a UTH? I'm not opposed to makeing a quick and dirty stand with a few boards and patio block to get it off the floor if needed until I get a rack or stand for the enclosure. I need to set up a rack anyway to start seedlings for the garden and I want to grow food for the tortoise year round.

There are a few more expos coming up in my are soon and Repticon Baltimore is Memorial Day weekend, so I don't feel pressured to get this particular snake.

In closing.. DO NOT buy a snake if you are unable or unwilling to feed live prey. Most will convert at a young age onto FT without any issues at all. The animal will suffer and get stressed out if you are constantly putting a FT rat in their face and they don't want it. You will frustrate yourself as well as lose a lot of money throwing away rats that it doesn't want.

[Craiga 01453]

Kudos to you for putting in the time and effort to be prepared. That will make a huge difference when bringing the animal home and sets a great example for your kids. Two thumbs up.

If feeding live is a make or break, you definitely don't want to bring home an adult snake who has refused F/T. Chances are it will take months or longer to transition to F/T.
Adults are also prone to refuse food for a while after being moved. Probably not the first snake experience (as a permanent pet) you're looking for.

My two cents would be to check out morphmarket.com and do some "window shopping". You will find tons of BPs for sale. Just do your homework and find a reputable breeder. Or at least get some ideas in mind for the next expo.

Since live feeding is something you want to avoid, your best bet will be to find a juvenile from a reputable breeder that is already well established eating F/T. By well established I mean AT LEAST 5 meals of F/T without refusal.

I just think this route will be more enjoyable for you and your family while also eliminating any concerns about feeding live.

Good luck! Please keep us posted.

[kwjones001]

Perfect! I was a little on the fence about her being fed larger meals so far apart, but had not even considered that she would permanently refuse FT. He just said she preferred live and there weren't many places locally that sell frozen other than Petsmart and PetCo. Personally, I think live rats pose too much of a risk to the snake, which is why I considered FT as a viable option. So for those that raise their own rats, how are they killed prior to feeding? I've heard some people use C02. My guess is that takes a sealed container hooked to a C02 tank. Breaking necks? Maybe a disucssion for a different time if we get back into rats.

Since I showed my wife Morphmarket a few days ago, she is non-stop sending me pictures snake she wants, and she has very expensive tastes in morphs....slow down turbo. Nothing good happens fast in an aquarium...same for other animals. I'm pretty sure my daughter would prefer a juvenile anyway. Again, I don't feel any pressure to buy this snake.

[Craiga 01453]

Perfect! I was a little on the fence about her being fed larger meals so far apart, but had not even considered that she would permanently refuse FT. He just said she preferred live and there weren't many places locally that sell frozen other than Petsmart and PetCo. Personally, I think live rats pose too much of a risk to the snake, which is why I considered FT as a viable option. So for those that raise their own rats, how are they killed prior to feeding? I've heard some people use C02. My guess is that takes a sealed container hooked to a C02 tank. Breaking necks? Maybe a disucssion for a different time if we get back into rats.

Since I showed my wife Morphmarket a few days ago, she is non-stop sending me pictures snake she wants, and she has very expensive tastes in morphs....slow down turbo. Nothing good happens fast in an aquarium...same for other animals. I'm pretty sure my daughter would prefer a juvenile anyway. Again, I don't feel any pressure to buy this snake.

I think you're making a wise choice.

As for breeding rats, most euthanize using a CO2 chamber like you mentioned. It seems the most humane way to go. From there you can freeze them or offer what's known as "pre-killed" which poses no risk for the snake.

As for purchasing F/T prey Petco and PetSmart have poor quality prey at ridiculous prices. There are online suppliers who have ethically run facilities and produce quality prey for a whole heck of a lot cheaper than the big box stores.

I personally use perfectprey.com or bigcheeserodents.com but there are others. You can also find prey at expos for comparable prices to the companies I mentioned without shipping costs.

And yeah...morohmarket is fantastic and evil at the same time, hahahhahaha. I want this one...and this one...and this one..etc......hahahahahahahaha.

[TopazEye]

If live bothers you, maybe you could consider a species with less of a tendencey towards live? My corn snake is such an easy eater compared to my BP and he always eats F/T with gusto.

[Moose84]

Perfect! I was a little on the fence about her being fed larger meals so far apart, but had not even considered that she would permanently refuse FT. He just said she preferred live and there weren't many places locally that sell frozen other than Petsmart and PetCo. Personally, I think live rats pose too much of a risk to the snake, which is why I considered FT as a viable option. So for those that raise their own rats, how are they killed prior to feeding? I've heard some people use C02. My guess is that takes a sealed container hooked to a C02 tank. Breaking necks? Maybe a disucssion for a different time if we get back into rats.

Since I showed my wife Morphmarket a few days ago, she is non-stop sending me pictures snake she wants, and she has very expensive tastes in morphs....slow down turbo. Nothing good happens fast in an aquarium...same for other animals. I'm pretty sure my daughter would prefer a juvenile anyway. Again, I don't feel any pressure to buy this snake.

I think you are making the correct decision. Like Craig said, older animals don't do well at all moving spots to begin with.. If you then switched up from live to FT it would be a disaster probably.

[Craiga 01453]

If live bothers you, maybe you could consider a species with less of a tendencey towards live? My corn snake is such an easy eater compared to my BP and he always eats F/T with gusto.

A good point.

However, in my experience as well as what I've read and heard from reputable sources, BPs that are well established eating F/T usually always take F/T with no problem. Of course, BPs are going to be more finicky eaters than many species, but once started they will typically take F/T with no problem moving forward.

But with so many amazing species there are definitely plenty of options.

[bcr229]

In your situation I would look at a carpet python or a boa. The upside to both is that they will typically eat anything and if you are raising chickens anyway they will dispose of the younger culls.

[Zincubus]

Kudos to you for putting in the time and effort to be prepared. That will make a huge difference when bringing the animal home and sets a great example for your kids. Two thumbs up.

If feeding live is a make or break, you definitely don't want to bring home an adult snake who has refused F/T. Chances are it will take months or longer to transition to F/T.
Adults are also prone to refuse food for a while after being moved. Probably not the first snake experience (as a permanent pet) you're looking for.

My two cents would be to check out morphmarket.com and do some "window shopping". You will find tons of BPs for sale. Just do your homework and find a reputable breeder. Or at least get some ideas in mind for the next expo.

Since live feeding is something you want to avoid, your best bet will be to find a juvenile from a reputable breeder that is already well established eating F/T. By well established I mean AT LEAST 5 meals of F/T without refusal.

I just think this route will be more enjoyable for you and your family while also eliminating any concerns about feeding live.

Good luck! Please keep us posted.

Perfect !!
Saved me writing the same stuff..

I think the secret is to only buy a young snake who’s a good , proven feeder on thawed frozen. That really means buying off a well respected breeder or at least someone or a pet store you can trust ..


I gave that information to a colleague then one evening she rang and said she’d bought a baby Royal/Ball python from her local pet store .. before I could say anything she said “ the guy fed it in front of my very eyes !”


Oh and they love eating baby chicks ...


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