Septicemia Dehydration Baby Ball Help!

[Buttercup]

There is a lot left unsaid here, no picture of the animal, no history, feeding pattern weight, vet qualification.

Last time I saw a regular vet diagnosing septicemia for example the snake was actually going in shed so sometime you have to take diagnoses with a grain of salt and usually when vet prescribe highly stressful treatment combined with force feeding it makes me a bit wary.

How/why did you go to the vet in the first place? Symptoms?

Just posted pics.

1

- - - Updated - - -

Please post pics and more details! Septicemia is a very serious condition Hope to hear from you.

Just posted pics.

1

[Buttercup]

That's actually false feeding issues with young animals seen by vets only have one thing in common, husbandry that does not meet the animal's need, combined to an often misguided owner, that cannot recognize that, which is normal when it is your first snake.

Vets never suggest optimum measure that can help an animal resume feeding naturally they jump the gun and order force feeding and/or tube feeding in extreme cases along with antibitotics....the old I will just prescribe anti-biotics just in case.

Now a red ring on the side may not be scepticimia, scepticimia will be in the majority of cases be first observed on the belly but with an inexperience vet (all vet see snakes but not all are board certified in herp medicine) other things can be mistaken for it as well.

If they were that knowledgeable they would have immidiately have addressed the size of the enclosure for a baby, even if well furnished in 80% of the cases it does not work unless you are an experienced keeper and the first sign will be food refusal.

They would also have never suggested force feeding every other day, that would never be done with a healthy animal that has never had food let alone one that would have health issues, again the toll of force feeding is great, we are talking about gastric juices capable of dissolving bones and fur.

After a while a snake that fails to thrive for whatever reason (husbandry or otherwise), will start becoming lethargic, dehydrated and reach the point of no return and eventually experiencing organ failure.

That animal should actually be euthanize at this stage.

I know it's hard to know who to trust but you can tell a lot on a vet experienced based on what they say, fail to say, address or fail to address and how they go about treatment.

Over the years I have seen a lot of vets making the wrong move based on traditional veterinary medicine and experience of treating dogs and cats, because snakes are usually a small percentage if their practice. From stressful unecessary force feeding to unecesaary anti optics that led to kidney failure etc.

Keep that in mind if you get another animal and you are experiencing feeding issues

Posted photos.

1

[EL-Ziggy]

I have no idea what's wrong with your critter but I really hope he pulls through. Because of how rapidly things went downhill it seems to me that the snake may have been ill on arrival or gotten very sick shortly thereafter. You did the right thing by taking him to the vet as soon as you noticed a problem so I commend you for that. Sometimes these things are just beyond our control and some animals just don't make it no matter what we do. I agree that husbandry should be properly dialed in prior to getting a snake but I'm not one who believes that young snakes need small enclosures to thrive. I definitely don't think it would have made much difference in this case. I've started most of my snakes in adult sized enclosures and never had any issues. As long as they have lots of hides and good temps they're usually just fine. A snake being a stubborn feeder is one thing but this seems like an acute illness that goes beyond just a feeding issue. Again, I hope your guy pulls through this, but if not, use it as a learning experience and I hope you'll try again. Best wishes.

[GoingPostal]

What antibiotic are they treating him with?

[Buttercup]

This doesn't sound perfect to me. All heat sources need a thermostat. One cool side and one warm side not warm and warmer. But we haven't got any actual temps to go off. Best wishes for the little guy.

Sorry if Im not being descriptive enough. We have 2 temperature/humidity gauges, 1 on each side of the enclosure. I'll post a pic of the gauges we are using. When I said "warm & warmer", I actually meant one side is cool and the other is warmer. Cool side is kept around 80, warmer side is kept around 90. Humidity kept within 40-60%, aiming for 50-60%. Large water bowel to help. Moss. Spray bottle used if necessary.1

[Buttercup]

I wanted to add that I am new to this and used the term "force feeding". By force feeding, I actually meant tube feeding with Emeraid IC Carnivore.

I just wanted to clarify the details in case I confused anyone about what were were doing in regards to feeding.1

[Bogertophis]

That earlier photo with Santa...even then he didn't look real healthy to me, so that's not something he should have been "out & about" doing, but as a new snake
owner, you wouldn't have known or noticed anything- I'm assuming that photo was not taken in your home? It's adorable sure, but likely stressful and not likely at
the proper temperatures, either while there or during transport. Just not something we'd recommend doing, that's all. FYI, I've done programs with snakes for
years, taking them to a wide variety of venues: they only go if I've had them long enough to know they're healthy & they're normally transported in cloth bags that
are placed inside a cushioned styro-foam box or 'cooler' so they aren't exposed to fluctuating temps. going to & from. I've moved across country with them packed
this way too, never any health issues afterwards. I'm saying this only for your information, not to say you "caused" his illness, because that's probably NOT the case.

I'm glad you & your vet(s) are doing what you can, I hope you can get him back to healthy. Did they just take a guess as to what antibiotic to administer? or was
lab work done to make sure the medication chosen will be the most effective? This matters a lot, as antibiotics aren't harmless: they kill off the friendly gut bacteria*
& are a bit rough on the snake's body, so it's not something you want your vet to guess on, even though lab work takes time & usually a lot more money. If an
"educated guess" is taken & it proves to be ineffective, it means you've put your snake thru injections for nothing (stress, & hard on the body) while time was lost not
getting it right, & then it will have to be repeated with the "right" medication. (*assuming your snake recovers, it's a good idea AFTER a snake has been on antibiotic
treatments, to add digestive enzymes to their food to help out, just like we take "probiotics" the same way. They do make them FOR reptiles, & that's all you should
use, because their gut flora is not the same as ours or that of other pets.)

[Buttercup]

I have no idea what's wrong with your critter but I really hope he pulls through. Because of how rapidly things went downhill it seems to me that the snake may have been ill on arrival or gotten very sick shortly thereafter. You did the right thing by taking him to the vet as soon as you noticed a problem so I commend you for that. Sometimes these things are just beyond our control and some animals just don't make it no matter what we do. I agree that husbandry should be properly dialed in prior to getting a snake but I'm not one who believes that young snakes need small enclosures to thrive. I definitely don't think it would have made much difference in this case. I've started most of my snakes in adult sized enclosures and never had any issues. As long as they have lots of hides and good temps they're usually just fine. A snake being a stubborn feeder is one thing but this seems like an acute illness that goes beyond just a feeding issue. Again, I hope your guy pulls through this, but if not, use it as a learning experience and I hope you'll try again. Best wishes.

Thank you for your kind words!

I love hearing lots of opinions as thats how we learn, right? You agree with my vets (2 diff exotic vets) assessments. Our ball is such a beautiful boy and so sweet that we are so hoping he can recover. My heart is there by my mind tells me his symptoms are bad & I feel he may not make it. Have you seen the photos I posted? I'd love your opinion after viewing those. Trust me, this snake was spoiled and monitored closely. Our only problem was feeding. Big problem, certainly but other than being in a large enclosure, everything was textbook... :/1

[Buttercup]

What antibiotic are they treating him with?

Fortaz 100mg, .02 ml intramuscular every 72 hours for a total of 5 injections. So far, he has had 3.1

[WhompingWillow]

I wouldn't be so quick to say your setup/husbandry is perfect because it seems there are a few common beginner mistakes going on. The type of thermometer you posted a photo of isn't reliable at measuring air temperatures. You want to get a digital thermometer. Accurite makes one that's pretty cheap, commonly found at Walmart. You also need to be measuring *surface* temps, which is done with a temp gun.

I also haven't seen mention of having a thermostat controlling a heat source?

Also, you mentioned your daughter trying to feed him pinkies. Is that what you've always tried to feed him? Mouse pinks or rat pinks? Either way that's too small a prey item. Even with how emaciated he is, I'd think a mouse hopper or rat fuzzy would be more appropriately sized.

Given how ill he seems, there should also be zero handling going on for the foreseeable future.

I don't say any of this to be unkind. There are a LOT of knowledgeable keepers on this forum, many I'd trust more than your average "exotic" vet. Best of luck with his care. I hope he recovers.