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Thread: Cursed?

  1. #1
    Registered User Cee Jay's Avatar
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    Angry Cursed?

    Hi all,

    I've posted before about my two adult carpets I bought as adults from LLL reptile. Both have eaten a couple times since I've had them, but haven't been interested in food for probably a few months now. Anybody else having the same thing happen? I live in Southern California. Just frustrated. Pretty sure husbandry is spot on. Actually spoke with Nick Mutton about this very topic and he said everything seems fine, but wanted to see if any fellow carpet lovers (haha) experience the same prolonged issues in warmer winter climates.

    P.S. I recently bought a couple frozen rats from Petco because theirs usually stink pretty gnarly. I kept the bag in the enclosures while the rats thawed and both snakes seemed put on by the smell, flicked their tongues upon initial offering, but just were not interested beyond that. Leave them in overnight every time. Usually re-freeze once and feed the same again a couple weeks later.

    CJ

  2. #2
    Telling it like it is! Stewart_Reptiles's Avatar
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    This time of the year for adults it's not unusual, but since you don't have any history on those animals being from a company that just resell animals it's hard to define what is normal for them as well, hence why buying from a reputable breeder that knows his animals is so important as they can give you pointers.

    I can tell you that my carpets unless breeding (females after ovy) NEVER turned down a meal, this is the one species you can usually always count on when it come to food, again not having any background on the animal it can be normal for them or not.
    Deborah Stewart

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  4. #3
    Registered User Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Re: Cursed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cee Jay View Post
    ...
    P.S. I recently bought a couple frozen rats from Petco because theirs usually stink pretty gnarly. I kept the bag in the enclosures while the rats thawed and both snakes seemed put on by the smell, flicked their tongues upon initial offering, but just were not interested beyond that. Leave them in overnight every time. Usually re-freeze once and feed the same again a couple weeks later.

    CJ
    No experience with carpet pythons, but lots of experience feeding snakes of all kinds & with f/t mice & rats. After you "leave them in overnight every time" they are SPOILED-and I don't believe that carpet pythons are among the snakes willing to eat carrion (the way king snakes might). So throw them out unless you re-freeze them while they're still fresh (within an hour of offering, I'd say, at the most). Better yet, don't re-freeze or re-offer. This might be part of your problem.

    It also matters HOW you thaw rats or mice: to reduce spoilage, either thaw IN the refrigerator (depending on how big the rodent is, could easily take a day+) OR thaw in cold water until soft all the way thru-feel by hand, & only then warm it up some (IF needed, depends on what kind of snake you're feeding) in very warm water &/or using a blow-dryer (hair-dryer). Thawing them by sitting out on the counter, or by submerging in warm water for prolonged periods of time, promotes spoilage and your snake CAN smell this, even if you cannot. Trust me.

    I raise my own rodents but I've "heard" that Petco doesn't have the best frozen feeders either...just saying. Sometimes they're bad from the start. You might try offering a fresh killed rat or one from another (better) source. Layne Labs is in California, in case you're close to them, they have great reviews, but I'm not sure if they sell locally to the public, or only by shipping? (which does get pricey because they have to ship on ice).

    https://www.laynelabs.com/
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 02-12-2020 at 06:49 PM.
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    BPnet Senior Member EL-Ziggy's Avatar
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    Re: Cursed?

    All of my carpets are eating sporadically right now. I'm not worried at all. They'll pick up again in a few months. I offer food every 3-4 weeks and some will eat and others won't. As long as your husbandry is on point I wouldn't be too concerned.
    2.2 Carpet Pythons, 1.1 Bullsnakes
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  7. #5
    BPnet Senior Member dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Cursed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cee Jay View Post
    Hi all,

    I've posted before about my two adult carpets I bought as adults from LLL reptile. Both have eaten a couple times since I've had them, but haven't been interested in food for probably a few months now. Anybody else having the same thing happen? I live in Southern California. Just frustrated. Pretty sure husbandry is spot on. Actually spoke with Nick Mutton about this very topic and he said everything seems fine, but wanted to see if any fellow carpet lovers (haha) experience the same prolonged issues in warmer winter climates.

    P.S. I recently bought a couple frozen rats from Petco because theirs usually stink pretty gnarly. I kept the bag in the enclosures while the rats thawed and both snakes seemed put on by the smell, flicked their tongues upon initial offering, but just were not interested beyond that. Leave them in overnight every time. Usually re-freeze once and feed the same again a couple weeks later.

    CJ
    "Pretty sure husbandry is spot on."


    What is your husbandry? Cage size, type, temps, humidity, etc?

    How are defrosting and offering the F/T rats?

    Overnight its fine, but I doubt the carpets will eat that. They are big on a heat signature.

    NEVER RE-FREEZE F/T prey.

    I would also be getting Frozen rats from a better source.

    Answering these questions can help us see if it's a you issue, or a CP issue.

    Keep us posted.

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  9. #6
    Registered User Cee Jay's Avatar
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    Re: Cursed?

    Great information, thank you. I only refreeze them when I take them out right after I realize they are not going to eat. I will leave the refrozen ones out overnight on the second attempt, since I am just trying a different method. I do heat them in hot tap water, which I will try leaving them in cold water in the fridge. Hadn't thought of that, so thank you.

  10. #7
    Registered User Cee Jay's Avatar
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    Re: Cursed?

    4x2x2 PVC enclosures for both. 12-13hr light cycle...I've been so lazy I need to get a timer, but the LEDs go on at 6am before work and off at 7pm. 89* cooling at night and 93* hot spot each from RHPs. Humidity stays relatively constant at 65% based on numbers I got from StarPythons. The bedding is thick brown paper i have a 1000ft roll of I cut multiple sheets. There is one large shallow bin I keep 3/4 filled with ReptiBark and moist for the humidity and to keep cleaning the cages easy. All the large wood and huge cork pieces are attached to the back panel of the enclosure with monster zip ties so nothing moves, so there are numerous areas and shelves to bask on. Cool side is about high 70s, very low 80s. They both have huge hides in that bark bin, which they go into every night and during the day to sleep when they are not out basking under the RHP. Everything seems perfect, except they will not eat!!! haha. Trying to be patient. I never see them drink water, which worries me, but it is always available. The smaller adult Variegata seems "thinner" but not sickly. Obviously from not eating for a while I imagine that could happen, but she just shed a nice shed and is active. Eyes are super clear and she hates me just as much as she ever did.

    A post I made a while back talked about giving them both a treatment for a few days in dawn soap and heated water, which I did, and then a treatment for a week or so with a blue liquid diluted...I can't remember what it's called off the top of my head. That honestly went well. The jungle, who was soaking in his water bowl constantly, has never done that again, and stopped roaming around his cage crazily for no reason like he was trying to escape. I didn't find mites, but am almost convinced there was something on the reptibark like wood mites or some s&*t that was tweaking him out. I now microwave all the Reptibark before using it in there. Had the same issue with my blue-tongue skink, and that has since stopped.

    Sorry for the lengthy post, just trying to give some information to anybody else who might chime in. Thanks again.

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  12. #8
    Registered User Cee Jay's Avatar
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    Re: Cursed?

    I usually get my rats from LLL in like bags of 8 - they are most always black and white mixed color, though I have sought all black ones with no luck. I ordered from Rodentpro in the past, and when I went through all those I switched to the LLL 8 pack, which I recently finished. I got the Petco ones out of interest, because even though I know they aren't great, those are some of the only ones they have ever eaten and I remember they stank pretty gnarly. I know that sounds counter intuitive, but I hoped the smell would pique their interest.

    Another poster said not to re-offer F/T or heat them/thaw them in hot water, which I will never do again. What sucks is my wife an I are both plant-based eaters who generally stay away from "animal death" type of stuff. That said, she and I are both willing to do whatever it takes to feed these guys, it's just funny that it's leaning toward, "well honey, looks like we may have to breed rats and chop their heads off to make this work!" I'm totally joking here

    I wish I could send a picture of the enclosures, but I don't think I've posted enough on here yet. Am I mistaken?

  13. #9
    BPnet Senior Member dakski's Avatar
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    Re: Cursed?

    Do they have perches? CP's love to perch and strike down at prey.

    See below for how to properly defrost a F/T prey item. Follow it to a T and then at the very end, as it states, hit the rat with hot water (from tap) or a hair dryer to warm it up and entice the snake to eat. This is not relevant for Boas, Corns, etc, but it is pythons, with heat pits, really like to see a heat signature.



    This is my step by step list on defrosting F/T rodents.

    Others may do it differently and that's fine. This how I do it and it works for me.


    STEPS FOR DEFROSTING F/T RODENTS/PREY

    1. Put prey item(s) into appropriate size plastic bag (1 for each). I use Quart size ziplock bags up to a medium rat. NOTE: Bags are optional. Some people just throw the prey in the water. I like the bags, but you have to squeeze the air out of them.

    2. Fill the container/storage box 3/4 of the way with room temp to slightly warm water. If you have a temp gun (which you should, so if you don't, get one), make sure the water is not hotter than 85-90F, or there about.

    3. Put F/T prey item(s) in water. Cover (optional) and leave for an hour +/-. Less if smaller prey and longer if bigger prey (however longer does not hurt smaller prey).

    4. After an hour, rotate/flip prey. If in plastic bags, they often will stay on whatever side you put them in on. So if mouse is on left side, turn to right side, etc.

    5. Leave for another hour +/- for a TOTAL of about 2 hours (up to medium sized rat - longer if bigger prey - Large rats, for example).

    6. Check that prey is defrosted totally through. Squeeze at different sections of the preys body. Should be cool/room temp to touch, but be soft with no cold spots. If hard (except for bone), in abdomen, for example, or cold, put back in water until room temp and soft.

    7. Take prey out of the container/storage box and put aside. THEN FOLLOW STEPS 8-11 OR STEP 12

    8. Fill container with hot water from tap. If using temp gun, water temp should be 110-130F, not more.

    9. Drop prey item into water for 30 seconds +/-. If multiple prey items, do one at a time. You want each item hot when you offer.

    10. Remove (if hot water, with tongs).

    11. Dry as best as you can, and is quickly as you can, with paper towels. I dry with paper towels while I am walking from the bathroom where I defrost to the snake tanks. I kind of wrap the prey item up in them. It's ten feet, so by the time I get to the tanks, the prey is drier, but still warm.

    12. If not using hot water, use a hairdryer to heat rat so it entices snake

    13. Open tank and offer ASAP on tongs. Wiggle gently to make it appear alive.

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  15. #10
    Registered User Cee Jay's Avatar
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    Re: Cursed?

    Ok, so I just used my heat gun and went to my garage sink that I use to soak the rats in a large plastic tupperware bowl. The temp I have been dropping frozen rats to soak in is reading 118* from the tap. While this obviously is going to cool naturally and with the addition of frozen items, I realize that is not the best practice and thank you for the insight. I will try the cold thaw from now on and order some new rats as I just finished the last of what has come to become a likely treat to the coyotes in the valley backing up to my house.

    I was tempted to try and order some different prey items. Anybody have success or experience with quail or anything weird like that? I also thought about Reptilinks from a Garrett Hartle video, but I think at this point my snakes might look at me like I'm crazy, so best to stick to something with fur...

    I have tried the blowdryer method, but this was with rats that had been fast-heated in hot water. What's interesting is that the times that they have eaten, and it hasn't been a lot since I've had these guys, they have NEVER struck at any prey item. The Variegata eats off a flat piece of cork bark I use to minimize mess when I've been out of the room, and the Jungle (newer addition), did one of those super slow Kevin McCurley type of eats where it just eats it all tame-like. Such a weird situation. I realize buying snakes and not knowing were they come from may not be the BEST practice, but other than the eating thing, they look very healthy and act normal. I got into this and got the first one out of sympathy to be honest, and the same went with the big jungle. Both had been returned, the Jungle several times, and I knew I could give them nice homes where they wouldn't have to keep switching their habitats. I've spent an unreal amount of money giving these two snakes great habitats and really hope they eat so I feel like I sort of gave them a good chance and life. Sorry if that sounds lame.

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