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  1. #11
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    Re: What's best viv or Tub? should i switch ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert420 View Post
    I do have a gradient from 27 -32 degrees and 27 - 30 for my spider morph (they do better with less heat,,,) my temps are on point and my thermostats dont have trouble keeping up and my humidity is 50 - 60, but i still do get the odd refusal of meals once a month. According to the breeder that wrote this post if your animal thrives it should never refuse a meal with that being said your temps are on point and the rodent temp is on point as well , still i do get refusals they hide they do anything a normal ball does but this got me thinking that they are not thriving???? His own words was if your animal is not food aggressive evrytime on the scheduled feeding day except for shedding etc ,, then its only eating to stay alive , where do you draw the line ? He also states to not point to individuals but rather than a group of balls from years of experience which i dont have and need more insight. .
    I might have missed this, but how old are your snakes, what size prey do you feed, how long have you had them and what were they eating before you got them? I have had most of my guys 4+ years now (and the longest 6 years) and I have noticed trends in their eating habits. For the adults it appears tied to their breeding cycle and my hatchlings and younger guys tend to eat with regularity.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  2. #12
    Registered User Albert420's Avatar
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    Re: What's best viv or Tub? should i switch ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tila View Post
    I might have missed this, but how old are your snakes, what size prey do you feed, how long have you had them and what were they eating before you got them? I have had most of my guys 4+ years now (and the longest 6 years) and I have noticed trends in their eating habits. For the adults it appears tied to their breeding cycle and my hatchlings and younger guys tend to eat with regularity.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I have them for 6 months now,, thus being part of the problem as only experience is the best teacher.

    They are both yearlings at around 900 grams. They each get a small rat once a week , they dont want anything to do with mice. Actually scared of it or just not familiar with the scent i guess ?

    It's really not that they are starving or not eating at all they are eating but if you properly want to take pride in your pets you should do whats best for them.

    im over what makes me happy , if they have to be in a tub where i will barely see them so be it....

    Like i take my dogs for walks everyday. (i dont always have the time but i make time). They are social animals we must do whats best for them like Deborah said you should get to know and understand your animals , this only comes with time,,,, unfortunately i was looking for a quick answer here,,,,,,,, , there is really no short answer to this,,, as to everyone will just has an opinion on whats best for them and the snakes for me its just about the snakes,,,,, , i have a bit of extra cash the next few months i will switch and test this experience myself and see what works best , i was told to look for aggressive feeding responses and not a I feel sorry for myself attitude
    If you haven't learned something new today ,,,, go listen to: Gang Starr - Moment of truth. ​R.I.P

  3. #13
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    Well, given that info, if I were in your shoes I would just hold steady with what you have. If they are eating (but not ravenously) with regularity I would keep going as you are. They may just still be settling in, and maybe aren't growing as fast right now. Snake care can require a big picture perspective which can be unnerving if you are used to more immediate feedback. It's great that you are inquiring about your husbandry and practices, it shows you care!

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    Albert420 (01-28-2020)

  5. #14
    Registered User Albert420's Avatar
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    Re: What's best viv or Tub? should i switch ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tila View Post
    Well, given that info, if I were in your shoes I would just hold steady with what you have. If they are eating (but not ravenously) with regularity I would keep going as you are. They may just still be settling in, and maybe aren't growing as fast right now. Snake care can require a big picture perspective which can be unnerving if you are used to more immediate feedback. It's great that you are inquiring about your husbandry and practices, it shows you care!
    Sometimes i think i care too much ,,, not for animals but for humans lol
    If you haven't learned something new today ,,,, go listen to: Gang Starr - Moment of truth. ​R.I.P

  6. #15
    Telling it like it is! Stewart_Reptiles's Avatar
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    Re: What's best viv or Tub? should i switch ?

    I agree with you, but like i said where do you draw the line how do you really tell if your animal is thriving or eating to stay alive ?
    Well it is a snake and therefore my expectations are based on the species at hand in this case a BP, if the snake eats (not doing so if young is often the first clue of something that could be off), is healthy and exhibiting a normal behaviour which would mean hiding 80% of the time than I consider this animal to be thriving.

    The rest comes with experience and each specific animal and what triggers them, when you pay attention your snakes let you know if something is wrong.
    Last edited by Stewart_Reptiles; 01-28-2020 at 11:38 AM.
    Deborah Stewart


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    Albert420 (01-28-2020)

  8. #16
    Registered User Meghenebk's Avatar
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    Re: What's best viv or Tub? should i switch ?

    People overfeed snakes in captivity all the time. They do not need to eat every time they find a meal, unlike their wild brethren.

    There are a dozen reasons a snake might refuse a meal. It's carrying plenty of internal fat, it's early in shed, it's using resources for a growth spurt, a hormone spike is telling it to focus on mating instead of food, a light pattern day length that means "winter is coming, quit eating because you'll get sick of sepsis when prey rots in your stomach," it has a mild bug and needs to fuel it's immune system, not the physical effort of digesting.

    Contrary to popular belief, ball pythons do not spend all their lives in termite mounds or underground at constant temperature. They will estivate there during hot months. Some prefer to hunt in rodent burrows, some hunt on the surface, and some (especially males) climb trees. I wonder how the tiny tub proponents rationalize things like the studies showing a high rate of birds as prey in some populations?

    Kina hard to ambush a bird from a burrow where you always live and never experience the temperature gradients that exist in every single biome.

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/...50009809386744

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    WhompingWillow (01-28-2020)

  10. #17
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    Re: What's best viv or Tub? should i switch ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert420 View Post
    According to the breeder that wrote this post if your animal thrives it should never refuse a meal with that being said your temps are on point and the rodent temp is on point as well
    I think you'd find that many people, breeders included, who keep ball pythons wouldn't buy this statement for a second. I certainly don't.

    Snakes are fed in captivity MUCH more regularly than they would eat in the wild. Obesity in captive snakes is a problem. There are many reasons a snake being kept well with proper husbandry/security might refuse a meal. Perhaps the snake just isn't hungry. It might be going into shed. Or refusals could be related to breeding or the season - ie, winter fast.

    I would be suspicious of any breeder or YouTuber or whoever who professes that there is only ONE way to do things or that things SHOULD always or never be one way or the other.

    There are generally accepted standards for caring for ball pythons (ie, the need for appropriate temps and humidity), but there are many, many ways to achieve proper husbandry and security for your snake.
    BALL PYTHONS: 1.0 Pied/Clark, 1.0 Pastel Vanilla Super Stripe/Sunny, 0.1 Dragon Fly/Buffy, 0.1 Pastel Vanilla Yellow Belly/Cher, 0.1 BEL (Mojave Lesser)/Arya, 0.0.1 Normal/Norm, 0.1 Cinnamon Enchi/Peaches, 1.0 Cinnamon Calico/Yoshi, 0.1 Pewter Het Dreamsicle/Ariel
    BOAS: 0.1 Dumeril's/Memphis, 0.1 BCL/Artemis, 1.0 BCO/Grimm, 0.1 Suriname BCC/Rhubarb
    CORN SNAKES: 0.0.1/Mushu
    MORELIA: 0.1 Bredli/Zelda, 0.1 Granite IJ/Bridget, 0.1 Caramel Diamond Jungle/Pixie

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    Tila (01-28-2020)

  12. #18
    Telling it like it is! Stewart_Reptiles's Avatar
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    According to the breeder that wrote this post if your animal thrives it should never refuse a meal with that being said your temps are on point and the rodent temp is on point as well
    Than that so called breeder has very limited experience with snakes in general and that species in particular
    Deborah Stewart


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    Tila (01-28-2020)

  14. #19
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    Re: What's best viv or Tub? should i switch ?

    Quote Originally Posted by NebulaJam View Post
    would love to see your set up!
    Hi Nebulajam, sorry about the delay, was away from home and couldn't take good pics. I've attached a pic of the entire viv, along with some of her hides. She uses pretty much all of them, and moves between them depending on her mood. The one to the very far left is a 'damp' hide. To my surprise, her favourite by far is the half log, because I've blocked off one side and stuffed it with leaves, making it very snug. She likes to poke her head out when she's in feeding mode. The others she uses variously too. The hides aren't identical and are different sizes and temps, but I stuff the big ones with substrate and leaves and it seems to make her happy. I bought them for her to 'grow into' and was worried she wouldn't feel secure. I was prepared to alter them but she seems like she doesn't mind at all. She also loves basking under her CHE after eating. There are live plants in there to create cover for her too, she loves to nestle between them.

    Eats regularly, doesn't constantly roam, just chills and feels comfortable in using all of her enclosure. She also loves to use the branch to climb and I've seen her drinking several times from her bowl!

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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