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  1. #1
    Registered User traveling_classicist's Avatar
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    Possible Respiratory Infection? or Stress?

    Hi there, I've got a 1 year old female ball python who has started to gather a list of strange symptoms that are starting to look like an RI.

    I noticed her 'snorting' several weeks ago. I don't know how else to describe it other than a short, sharp exhale; like a 'snort'. I don't think it's a hiss (she's never actually hissed at me so I'm not totally sure) because it happens both when she's in the tank by herself and when I'm handling her. That was the first weird thing.

    Then I noticed her yawning three or four times during one handling session of about 30 minutes. I started to pay more attention and noticed her yawning more often than she probably should be. I couldn't see any mucous or viscous saliva or anything like that. The inside of her mouth looked fairly pink like normal.

    She's been eating normally once a week, a large mouse (last feed was Friday). Her nighttime behavior is normal, she cruises around for an hour or so and then goes back to her fav hides on the warm side of the tank. Daytime behavior is normal from what I see (I work so I'm not with her all day) but for the most part she appears to stay in her hides.

    I caught her open mouth breathing or at least what I think was open mouth breathing. She had her mouth open just a little and was just sitting there. Then, just closed her mouth and went about her business.

    She also started burrowing in her substrate (reptile prime) out of the blue. She was really keen on getting underneath her water bowl, to the point she rubbed a little boo boo on her nose. That behavior stopped when I put the water bowl down on the surface of the tank and surrounded it with substrate.

    All of this taken together, I scheduled a vet appointment and will see him later this week BUT

    Tonight, I was woken up by this horrendous coughing/gagging noise. I ran to her tank and her mouth was open and another of these strangled-sounding noises came out. She was quite tense too. Then she closed her mouth and went into one of her hides. My immediate reaction after seeing she wasn't dying was to hop on here and see if others had experienced this. Most of the threads suggested looking to see if she had just pooed because apparently they can make these awful noises when farting or pooping? Lo and behold, she had just laid a poo but it was surprisingly runny. There were firm parts of it but there was also a runny part too.

    Her temps and humidity were great up until two weeks ago. I got a 40br tank and moved her in (from a 20l) and since then have had a hell of a time heating it and keeping it humid. On her warm end, I get about 86 degrees and the cool end about 72 (ambient only 77) and humidity has been all over the board. I don't know if it's the size of the tank or the dryness of my house or what. I rehydrate her reptile prime substrate everyday and it's still not keeping the humidity at a decent level. She does have a humidity 'box' filled with damp sphagnum moss under her heat lamp and above her heat mat, though and she tends to stay in that one most of the time.

    These new husbandry problems that I've been racing to fix have only occurred in the last couple weeks but most of the symptoms have occurred in the last two months.

    So, I wanted to ask anyone on here what you think is happening here. Is this symptomatic of an RI despite the fact that she's still eating and up to her normal antics? or could this just be an escalation because the stress of a new environment/bad husbandry? Of course, the vet will give me a more definitive answer but I want to hear if anyone else has experienced a mix of symptoms like this or if maybe I'm just putting things together that don't add up to anything.

    Also, any tips or tricks to heating and humidifying the new tank would be GREATLY appreciated.

    Sorry for the length, just trying to put in as much info as possible for you all. Everyone on this site has been so helpful and kind in the past so I'm really grateful to you!

  2. #2
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Sounds like she's coming down with an RI, but it's just not real bad yet. Snakes cannot actually cough up secretions (that doesn't stop them from trying) so it's
    important not to let an RI get bad, as they can choke to death if mucus secretions clog their throat/lungs. Your ambient temps are a bit low, & especially if you
    think your pet may have an RI it's often suggested to raise the temps. by a few degrees. You want temps. between 80*-90* for now. Humidity is a challenge
    for glass tanks, but you just have to seal over most of the screen top with foil or plastic or whatever reduces the air-flow; that's the big difference between glass
    tanks and the PVC enclosures that many like to use...those have only a few small air holes for circulation...& some don't even have that (relying only on the tiny
    air leaks around the door). I generally cup a snake's face near my ear to listen for tiny whistling or crackling sounds that indicate an RI, but when your snake was
    mouth-breathing, that's a pretty good indication too, though sometimes snakes have blocked nostrils, so you want to check for that also. It can be substrate from
    a snake burrowing, or it can also be caused by bits of old shed skin that got stuck...not just an RI, but it's time to pay attention & play detective in case it's an RI-
    if it's an RI, a very mild one can sometimes go away with slightly elevated temps. & better husbandry, but most of the time you'll need a vet for antibiotics, and
    getting the right Rx is important, as all "germs" don't respond to the same medication. Good luck...

    About the poo- probably normal (sometimes it can have both liquid & "chunky" & still be normal), but a fresh sample for the vet to check wouldn't be a bad idea.
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 01-09-2020 at 03:19 AM.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
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  4. #3
    Registered User traveling_classicist's Avatar
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    Re: Possible Respiratory Infection? or Stress?

    Thank you for your response, bogertophis! I'm glad I'm taking her to the vet then. Hopefully, if it's an RI, we can nip it in the bud real quick. Fingers crossed.

    I do have most of her screen lid covered with foil but I may be able to restrict the air flow a little more. I want to keep the heat lamps clear though.

    Is a reptifogger something I may need for her humidity? Or I've also seen those hydroball things used for other reptiles. Is that something people use for humidity problems like this?

    I've also got another heat dome on the way that has a higher watt capacity than the current one. Hoping using a higher watt bulb will pump in a bit more heat. I use a ceramic heat bulb at night to keep the temp up and then a lamp during the day.

  5. #4
    Registered User traveling_classicist's Avatar
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    Re: Possible Respiratory Infection? or Stress?

    Just an update for anyone who reads this.

    Pythia did not have a respiratory infection but rather an allergic reaction to her Reptile Prime substrate. I didn't even think to put two and two together but about two months ago (when a lot of these symptoms really started), I switched her from aspen to reptile prime for humidity reasons. I guess something in that was just really messing with her nose which is probably why she was burrowing under the water dish (to scratch her itchy nose). Not a knock against Reptile Prime, though. It's a great bedding just not something that will work for us in the future. The suggested to switch her back to aspen shavings.

    Glad I took her to the vet. It never really occurred to me that snakes (or reptiles in general) could be allergic to things but that's my own ignorance I guess. There were no signs of an RI during her exam and the vet was quite certain of that which was relieving. They did to a stool test from her runny stool but it all came back normal. For now, we're just going to keep an eye on her and see if the symptoms go away in the next few weeks.

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  7. #5
    BPnet Veteran O'Mathghamhna's Avatar
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    Re: Possible Respiratory Infection? or Stress?

    Interesting! You may not be able to answer this, but how on earth did they discern an allergic reaction?
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  8. #6
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Re: Possible Respiratory Infection? or Stress?

    Quote Originally Posted by O'Mathghamhna View Post
    Interesting! You may not be able to answer this, but how on earth did they discern an allergic reaction?
    Personally I would take that to be an "educated guess" rather than a certainty. It might just have been an irritant for a snake that burrows nose-first into it?
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
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  9. #7
    Registered User traveling_classicist's Avatar
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    Re: Possible Respiratory Infection? or Stress?

    Quote Originally Posted by O'Mathghamhna View Post
    Interesting! You may not be able to answer this, but how on earth did they discern an allergic reaction?

    According to the vet, as there were no other signs of an RI (no mucous in the mouth or nose, good color in the mouth, no audible wheezing/noises). Plus, she was eating fine and all other behavior was normal along with the fact that I had changed her bedding to Reptile Prime two months ago when I started to notice her odd collection of symptoms, he came to the conclusion that something (dust, fibre, etc.) in reptile prime was irritating her nose which was causing the other RI-like symptoms and the burrowing. Other possible illnesses were ruled out with a stool sample test.

    As there is no way to confirm allergies in snakes like there is in humans (as far as I know) I'm assuming that this was an educated guess but hey, that's what I pay him for.

    And she's doing fine now. Haven't had any further symptoms since switching the bedding back. Still keeping an eye on her but she seems alright for now.

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  11. #8
    BPnet Senior Member Lord Sorril's Avatar
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    Re: Possible Respiratory Infection? or Stress?

    Quote Originally Posted by traveling_classicist View Post
    On her warm end, I get about 86 degrees and the cool end about 72 (ambient only 77) and humidity has been all over the board.
    I've also got another heat dome on the way that has a higher watt capacity than the current one. Hoping using a higher watt bulb will pump in a bit more heat.
    Yes, your cool 'end' should not be below 75. if you are seeing strange symptoms--I would increase the ambient of the entire enclosure to 80F (which is not easy in a 40 gallon tank).

    As for the allergy to Reptile Prime--I'm not certain if there is an allergy test for snakes currently. Human blood and inflamed tissue usually have increased levels of eosinophil cells--not sure if it is comparative to reptiles....if so, a blood or tissue test against a statistical average should identify it. Otherwise it is just purely a guess.
    *.* TNTC

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  13. #9
    BPnet Senior Member CALM Pythons's Avatar
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    Re: Possible Respiratory Infection? or Stress?

    If your more comfortable going to a qualified herpstat then go for it. Make sure however the Vet has experience. I have seen a lot of Vets take on an appointment for a snake that actually do not have any experience with Snakes and have prescribed or diagnosed things that were completely incorrect over and over on these Forums.
    I myself do not like wood substrate. People use it, however if you look at people that deal with a large number of reptiles or breeders they often use butcher paper because of health and cleanliness issues.
    I have seen snakes have problems with dust and wood pieces themselves getting into their mouth, throat and sinus’s.
    If your snake does not have discharge it most likely is not a RI. I have also heard snakes coming down with an RI and not showing mucus symptoms yet kick the RI just by cranking the heat as their immune system was good.
    You do not want any surface in that enclosure below 78°. Your hot side needs to be 88 to 91.
    Remember no thermometer is perfect so if people have a Hot Spot of 86 it could be 83. If you have a cool spot of 75 it could be 72 and this is Dangerous period. Thermometers measure within 3°..... nothing is perfect.
    Humidity can play a big role also as you mentioned you had some trouble with yours. If you’re using a breeder tank with a screen lid make sure you have the screen top covered with plexiglass or cardboard. Even a towel can work.
    I missed what you are using but if your having a problem with heating use a heat mat on both sides, one set to 80 and the other 90.
    That way anything that you’re using overtop for ambient isn’t such a necessity with the floor being correct.


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