Garage conversion questions

[Caitlin]

I hope this is the correct forum for this post; if not, let me know and I will post wherever appropriate.

I am (finally!) starting the process of converting my garage (attached and shares a wall with my study) to a reptile room/rodent room/improved laundry room. I live in an area where we get moderate temps throughout much of the year, hot summers, and winter lows that are only occasionally freezing; more typically dropping into the low 40s.

I am not a breeder - my snakes are pets. As per my signature, I mainly have pythons and one BRB. Once the garage conversion is complete I'll be adding a few Kingsnakes to the collection (POSSIBLY exploring breeding), another BRB and a dwarf boa. I feel like I am just at the point in terms of snake numbers where it may be worth it to raise rats, and having had them as pets throughout my childhood, I think I'd be OK doing that if the converted garage is appropriate for them.

My GTP is a display snake and is staying in the house; the BRB may well stay in the house as well due to her specific husbandry requirements. I believe if I get the garage done properly I can house the other pythons and any new additions there.

My question is whether any of you who have tackled a similar conversion are willing to share lessons learned, things you found to be important to consider, and any random tips. I have a flexible budget and while I don't want to go crazy here, I don't need to stress about looking for all possible savings - quality is more important and I'm grateful to be able to focus on that. Thanks in advance for any responses!

Oh, and one specific question: has anyone installed a solar panel on an outdoor shed or garage, and would that be worth considering here?

[303_enfield]

Out of sight is out of mind. Now, raising rats,ASF an mice is fine in the shop/garage if done correctly. Snakes as pets, NO, NO an NO. A pet is meant to be seen an enjoyed.

If your going to hobby breed in a shed, shop or garage you have some things to do first.

1) Heat an air conditioning! Also, the rats an mice don't do well at snake temps, ASF will.
2) Cameras an security tied to your phone. Temps drop, an alarm in the house an phone better tell you. Somebody stealing your snakes form the garage
3) Pest control. Prey animals bring pest. Snakes in the same area = different pest control.
4) Venting to remove rat smells.
5) More things then I can remember.

Now, I do raise ASF an rats in my shop. The room is rodent proof, expanded metal behind walls an celling. Traps on the floor if something goes wrong. Two cameras in the room, heat, air an venting. An one of my kids still left a rack open one day! Out of sight is out of mind. I was lucky that day. As I went to check some rats ready to drop for a third time. I found 10 (live) ASF trying to find a way out. Cameras showed what kid did it when everybody was "not me".

Keep your snakes in the house.

My two cents.

[Bogertophis]

I'd never keep snakes in garage either: first thing you have to ask/answer is whether or not you are still going to use the garage for your car? and how often you
expect to be opening & closing it for that purpose. It makes a HUGE difference for the conditions in the garage & what creatures you can safely keep.

I did exactly that when I lived in "high* desert" of So. Cal. for many years. *refers to elevation, not mental states. I had a 4+ car garage that I still parked my van
in, but it was so large that the temperatures were more stable than if it had been a more normal-sized garage. I ran a huge "rodent-ranch" in that garage & it worked
fine for rats, mice & Russian dwarf hamsters; all of those do better with cooler temperatures than with heat. In winter I insulated their cages somewhat...but winters
there were mild & short; for summer, I used a down-draft swamp cooler just for the garage- it was on a thermostat (un-common for swamp coolers but worked great)
& I had 4 'up-ducts' installed for the warm smelly air to vent up & out. BTW, that garage was also "finished" as far as walls & ceiling, btw, & you'll need the insulation!

Exactly what modifications you need will depend on exactly what you want to keep & your exact climate. But snakes in a garage? No way I'd do that...they can get
invaded by ants or spiders, either of which can kill your snakes. (can happen in a house too, but far less likely) Pest control is toxic to snakes- I just wouldn't do it.

I agree with security issues that 303_enfield mentioned too. I didn't have that problem, as that house was fenced in (6' chain link) & locked, & patrolled by the pack
of 4 big dogs I had then (2 dobies & 2 shepherd-mixes). No one even made it to my front door, which carried warning signs for "rattlesnakes on duty" (which wasn't
a lie either, lol). I'd never keep snakes in a way that they were "out of sight, out of mind"...not even the rattlesnakes I had then, all shared my living space so I could
easily & always see what was going on at all times. This is both for my pleasure & their health & safety issues...if anything is wrong, I want to see & fix it right away.

[Caitlin]

Many thanks to both of you for such great input.

And oh hell no I don't park my car in the garage. I should have specified that; I would never have even considered this if I used the garage for parking.

I agree with both of you. Because I don't use the garage for parking, the upgrade is meant to make the whole space more livable and far more climate-controlled than most garages. And you're both right - I think I will shift my focus into upgrading the space into an improved laundry room + rodent room.

I am planning on fully insulating and finishing the room. I do have a good security system and will include camera coverage/linkage to phone.

I wish I could have ASFs; I'd raise them in a heartbeat, but they are illegal in my state - so it'll be Norway rats and mice - mice because I do have some smaller snakes like Antaresia pythons and would like another Antaresia or a Colubrid or two; rats for the Ball Python, Jungle carpet, Brazilian Rainbow and yet-to-be-decided upon additional boa.

Given that my snake collection is not a huge one and because PVC enclosures are stackable, the snakes can fit nicely in my study as long as I focus on pets and not on breeding - so I think I'll stick with pets, just add a couple more of the species that interest me and call it good!

Thanks again.

[Bogertophis]

Depending on where you live (local laws), you probably should check on whether or not you need a building permit to do what you're planning, IF what you modify
will be permanent making the garage part of your living space. There could be restrictions as to what you are allowed to do, again, if it's not temporary. It might
also change your property tax, if you add more square footage of living space, but you might be required to have a garage- so anything permanent, you should make
local inquiries first. If you do something without a permit, I think they can make you tear it all out, or fine you?

[Caitlin]

Thanks, and that is always a good reminder for anyone planning any sort of structural modifications. Some of the regulations and permit requirements can be surprising, haha. I do have that aspect all researched and addressed, though, thank goodness. I'm just down to finalizing the details before we get started. Looking forward to having a safe, secure spot for some small-scale rodent breeding; my local herpetological society does rescue work and will happily take any surplus.

[Bogertophis]

Thanks, and that is always a good reminder for anyone planning any sort of structural modifications. Some of the regulations and permit requirements can be surprising, haha. I do have that aspect all researched and addressed, though, thank goodness. I'm just down to finalizing the details before we get started. Looking forward to having a safe, secure spot for some small-scale rodent breeding; my local herpetological society does rescue work and will happily take any surplus.

Great! Many years (& several houses) ago, I once thought of converting a 2 car garage to part of the house, & adding another garage...so I know that you can hit some
snags if you don't check carefully first. And I'm jealous...I wish there was a local herp society where I am now, & I don't quite have the energy to start one.

[Caitlin]

Yeah, after seeing what this herp society goes through with their rescue/adoption program, I have nothing but love and respect for what they're doing. I think sometimes about offering to help foster snakes (they ALWAYS have balls and boas that need fostering) but I worry about mites and disease transmission with my own snakes. Maybe I can figure out something in the garage conversion that would allow me to foster a couple but given the good feedback I have gotten here, I doubt it. I'll donate rodents and extra bedding in the meantime when I'm able.

[Bogertophis]

I think that even with fostering shelter dogs or cats, it's better (safer) if you don't have your own pets at home already. I think fostering is good maybe for
someone who misses their late pet & doesn't quite want to make a life-long commitment to another. Takes special ppl, that's for sure, & they'd be hard to give up
after you work so hard to get them healthy, at least it would for me.

[Caitlin]

Yep. I've done fostering, and whether it's mammals or reptiles or wildlife (I did bird of prey rehab for years), some of them have been so traumatized that you end up with significant behavioral issues; their immune systems are sometimes trashed because of general stress; they may have underlying illnesses or maladaptive behaviors that caused them to land in rehab in the first place. And all of that is aside from parasites and more immediately apparent diseases. It's just not great to bring that home if you have pets of your own.

But this herp society is always SO happy to get donations of heat pads, thermostats, bedding, feeders, gift cards to the big chain pet stores or Amazon, disinfectant, etc. Thankfully I can always find other ways to be helpful to them.

Thanks again for the great feedback about the garage conversion. It really helped me put the brakes on, rethink things, and come to a decision that will be best for me and my pets.