Spider Ball Python ban and breeding

[Pine]

I have a Queen bee and he has no problem at all.
I have even had him roll off my hand into his viv and end up on his back and he will right himself as fast as my Pastel can.
I think it's a non issue and started because of jealousy over a couple breeders that have become very successful and famous.
No names being mentioned.

[wnateg]

I will add a fourth factor to judge by: 4.) The breed normally.

As far as I know, spiders have no trouble breeding normally.

As the train wrecks are removed from the breeding population, selective breeding is improving the stock.

That's not true. Some spider combos are fatal.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

NERD has spiders who show a wobble. Other big breeders who work with the gene has also shown their snakes with the condition on YouTube. I really doubt every single last one of those breeders were rescues.

No one is disputing the fact that they all wobble, people are disputing the fact that in the majority of cases it is very MILD even unnoticeable to the person with limited experience that never hear of a spider.

Now people have a tendency to over dramatized with again ZERO hand on experience or a very limited one

Now a rescue is a rescue I have rescued normals that were corkscrewing worse than any spider I ever owned.

[MarkL1561]

Help! Concerned spider owner.
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app
Here’s another thread that “discussed” the issue. I’m actually kinda getting tired of this debate as honestly it’s pretty stupid. People seem to love jumping on bandwagons nowadays if they think it’s the in thing to do. If spiders had such a debilitating disease then they wouldn’t have become one of the most prolific morphs there is. Also, the original was an import meaning it survived in the wild. Anywho... I’m kinda tired of trying to talk sense into people so if anyone is interested you can go through the thread to see both point of views.


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[MarkL1561]

That's not true. Some spider combos are fatal.

Super forms of many morphs are lethal, not just spiders. Also, I’m fairly certain spider isn’t one of them but I’m not a breeder so I’m unsure.


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[wnateg]

Super forms of many morphs are lethal, not just spiders. Also, I’m fairly certain spider isn’t one of them but I’m not a breeder so I’m unsure.


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Sure, that may be. I don't much of anything about ball pythons or morphs, but from this list it seems spiders may have breeding issues, because there are 3 or so spider combos on this list that are fatal or difficult to survive. That may be normal, but this list is frequently posted, and it explicitly states these as fatal, so it's worth mentioning.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Super forms of many morphs are lethal

Not really only a few are lethal (and I mean a few) most co-dom have perfectly healthy supers, super spider, super champagne, pearl however are indeed lethal that's 3

Some may have issues such but again it's in the minority

http://www.owalreptiles.com/issues.php

[MarkL1561]

Not really only a few are lethal (and I mean a few) most co-dom have perfectly healthy supers, super spider, super champagne, pearl however are indeed lethal that's 3

Some may have issues such but again it's in the minority

http://www.owalreptiles.com/issues.php

Aren’t some super forms for boas lethal? I’ve heard jungle to jungle is a bad idea for example.


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[AbsoluteApril]

Aren’t some super forms for boas lethal? I’ve heard jungle to jungle is a bad idea for example.

It depends on the genes involved, boas do not have nearly as many dom/co-dom morphs as BPs do, most morphs in boas are recessive.
Super jungles tend to not live very long and have fertility issues. Super motley has the same issue with longevity as well as having development issues with the head shape. Super aztecs have had reported issues with longevity/survivability.
Super hypos are perfectly fine.

[Cheesenugget]

I previously posted my opinion in a separate thread about the spider gene. Most still hold true with the exception of myself getting a spider should I want a bp again.

Everything in one way or another has a flaw, a mutation or a defect. Some is more severe than others, many are mostly so faint and barely noticeable that it does not interfere with life. If a snake can thrive, regardless of the gene or morph or whatnot, so be it. As long as you keep a non-domesticated animal as a pet in your home, it is always unnatural. So that whole argument of "it would not survive in the wild" makes no sense because 1. The first captive of the spider morph purchased by Kevin at NERD was wild caught and an adult and 2. Comparing oranges to apples: how we interpret the wobble would negatively affect their life in a tub or glass tank is not the same as how it would affect it in its natural habitat. And many imports found are first trapped for the leather trade, not pets, so many more adult spiders could have been found from the wild but never reported.

Until the real Dr. Dolittle shows up and tells us what the snakes are really thinking, why would one think that it was wallowing in misery if it eats, poops and breeds like all the other morphs?