Spider Ball Python ban and breeding

[mdb730]

People having issues with spiders comes up so often now I wonder if it's linked with the rise of "pet youtubers" that have very limited knowledge on pythons/morphs but love to voice their opinions. I've heard people say Spiders should be banned because they would not survive in the wild but yet these people own albino BP.Every morph itself is a mutation/defect of Python Regius and spiders are not the only ones that wobble. Anyone who has ever worked with spiders can tell you the wobble does not interfere with the snake's ability to eat/defecate/breed or nor does it shorten their lifespan. I two snakes in collection that wobble and the wobble is only noticeable when they are excited or stressed. For example my black pewter champagne female wobbles like crazy at feeding time while my male spider only wobbles if I change something in his enclosure. I personally find it more questionable breeding for supers that have a high percentage of deformed or kinked clutches than breeding a spider.

[wnateg]

yet these people own albino BP

There are plenty of animals with albinos that live and survive in the wild. Color and neurological issues is not a very solid comparison.

[mdb730]

There are plenty of animals with albinos that live and survive in the wild. Color and neurological issues is not a very solid comparison.

When you rely on camouflage to survive it's highly unlikely you will survive long enough in the wild to reach "adulthood". Point is, spider is a morph just like any albino bred for the pet trade and cared for in captivity. Using the "they can't survive in the wild" argument is no excuse to ban a morph.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

The first Spider was found in the wild as an adult proof that it thrived just fine , Spiders eat, drink, poop, breed like any other BP matter of fact they are generally more inquisitive and many have reported that they were better feeders.

Again the anti spider bandwagon based on little to no experience is ridiculous especially considering that it is not the only morph that wobbles but yet is the only one under attack. Thousands have been produced very few have severe issues but thank to the internet know it all who never owned a spider it has now a bad name......sad really and I don't even own spiders anymore.

[ladywhipple02]

You have to judge the quality of life of the animal in your care.

With snakes, the typical judges are: 1.) they eat normally 2.) they shed normally 3.) they defecate normally

The spiders that I've cared for in my years have always been amazing eaters. Maybe they aren't the most graceful, but they NEVER missed a meal - and let's face it folks, BPs as a whole aren't graceful... plenty of normals have whacked the side of a cage or flipped themselves upside down in their excitement of eating. We notice it more in spiders because we've been "trained" to (much like when you're looking to buy a specific vehicle and then start seeing it everywhere).

If the snake's quality of life is such that they can't eat, can't shed, or can't poo normally, then it's time to think about culling or at least to NOT breed and end that line of inheritance. And that can happen with ANY lineage and any trait - it just isn't touted about like the spider gene is.


You can say that the above three stipulations are only basic needs, that we can't really know what the snake feels *cough* anthropomorphism *cough* but then you have to go back and say that folks that keep snakes in tubs aren't providing a high quality of life because they're just providing the basics, but someone with a tank the size of a room isn't providing a high enough quality of life because it's still not the wild where these animals truly belong... so why are you even keeping snakes at all??

[Phantomfugue]

Rescues are in need of rescuing because of the poor condition of the husbandry and animal. Poor husbandry such as too much heat will cause further damage making the symptoms worse. So yeah if the person you got him from or yourself were'nt using a thermostat to control the heat i could see that causing permanent damage. Add 10° f to the average human body temperature and it causes brain damage.

Too much heat wasn't the problem with her. I'm comparing one rescue to the other rescues my brother has taken in who were in similar conditions. The snakes I'm comparing her to were too cold, dehydrated, on bad substrate, had stuck shed and were underfed. She was too cold, dehydrated, on bad substrate, and was underfed. These are animals we've picked up from their old owners, not from a shelter. I'm comparing her to one younger pied and an older normal. You can argue that the wobble isn't so bad, but you can't say that spiders and other similar genes don't have a wobble.

[Lord Sorril]

The way people talk you would think that all Spider ball pythons are constantly wobbling. That is not the case. Many show no signs outside of feeding and then it is usually a reaction to the stress. It seems hardly worth the attention it gets aside from extreme cases where snakes that are coincidentally Spider Morphs have sustained neurological damage from environmental factors.

Here is a handful of my Spiders. Check out the wobble. Oh the horror!

[Craiga 01453]

I figure I'll throw my two cents in here...

My thoughts are this...I have no problem at all with responsible breeders working with the spider gene, or any of the others that are known to have Neuro issues, kinking, duck billing or whatever...as long as it's done responsibly.

It certainly seems like some people think the spider gene is the devil. It's not, people. Nor is it the only gene known for defects.

All that said, I personally don't have any spiders, and I personally won't choose to add any. I just see so many amazing animals out there that I've got plenty of other options. So although I think spiders generally speaking are gorgeous, I just choose to keep some of the other thousands of options out there.

So in conclusion, if you don't like spiders, don't add any to your collection. Quite simple.
And any talk of an outright ban really grinds my gears. I've gotta drive 30 minutes to NH to get vape supplies now because of an asinine ban. Bans aren't the answer...

[Phantomfugue]

The way people talk you would think that all Spider ball pythons are constantly wobbling. That is not the case. Many show no signs outside of feeding and then it is usually a reaction to the stress. It seems hardly worth the attention it gets aside from extreme cases where snakes that are coincidentally Spider Morphs have sustained neurological damage from environmental factors.

Here is a handful of my Spiders. Check out the wobble. Oh the horror!

It's not just rescues from bad situations who have it. Even breeders from large collections have the condition.

NERD has spiders who show a wobble. Other big breeders who work with the gene has also shown their snakes with the condition on YouTube. I really doubt every single last one of those breeders were rescues.

[paulh]

You have to judge the quality of life of the animal in your care.

With snakes, the typical judges are: 1.) they eat normally 2.) they shed normally 3.) they defecate normally

....

I will add a fourth factor to judge by: 4.) The breed normally.

As far as I know, spiders have no trouble breeding normally.

As the train wrecks are removed from the breeding population, selective breeding is improving the stock.