Is there a difference between a defensive bite and a feeding bite?

[punkrawkah]

I didn't rip her off and I used cold water to convince her to let go. Its not really bad at all. After 24 hours its almost healed already. Everyone at my work I talked to about it today don't own snakes. The big question of the day was what does it feel like? My answer was Its kinda like getting a snake mouth tattooed on you but instead of sitting there waiting for it to get done its more like a tattoo stamp.

Some of you might disagree but I decided since shes obviously hungry she could eat. Some of you may also disagree but She took 2 50 gram rats. I used the hook and was able to get her into and out of the feeding bin with no hassle or close calls.

I know a couple other breeders and they both said just feed her until she wont take anymore. I'm not going to feed her everyday though. But maybe twice a week 2 50 gram rats. Like I said some of you may disagree. That's fine though because everyone is an expert in there own rights. That doesn't mean I still don't want input and constructive criticism.

I feel like if everyone gave there 2 cents I can refine and compile a better plan to get her back to her normal self before I moved her out of her home. My 8 y/o daughter was with me when we went and picked her up, and she was even able to handle her with no problem. My 8 y/o lives with her mom in Washington state and has never held a snake before and she was very comfortable handling her. So comfortable that when we final got home she spent all of thanksgiving week with a less than 200 gram hatching in her hand.

I've owned several snakes through out my 35 years but never more than 2 at a time. I have 10 now and 1 emg enchi clown on the way, and 3 het clowns payed for and on there way in the spring, enchi, normal, and pastel het clowns. Learning to deal with all the different personalities is something i'm enjoying the most about starting a business derived from a passion. so please give it to me straight because I want to learn from every example that can be provided.

Thank you all

[bcr229]

I know a couple other breeders and they both said just feed her until she wont take anymore. I'm not going to feed her everyday though. But maybe twice a week 2 50 gram rats. Like I said some of you may disagree. That's fine though because everyone is an expert in there own rights. That doesn't mean I still don't want input and constructive criticism.

Feeding 10% of her body weight weekly is fine. Overfeeding means risking a regurgitation and then you have to take her off food for at least three weeks to recover before feeding again, which neither of you will appreciate.

[EL-Ziggy]

Feeding in a separate enclosure is a waste of time and energy imo. There's no benefit for the snake or the keeper but to each their own. If she's 900g why not feed one medium rat weekly? They're typically around 100-150g each. It's easier and less expensive than feeding multiple prey items. One medium rat costs me $2.75 vs. $4.50 for two small rats.

[punkrawkah]

Feeding in a separate enclosure is a waste of time and energy imo. There's no benefit for the snake or the keeper but to each their own. If she's 900g why not feed one medium rat weekly? They're typically around 100-150g each. It's easier and less expensive than feeding multiple prey items. One medium rat costs me $2.75 vs. $4.50 for two small rats.

Wow!!! Where are you buying rats from? That's an insane price. The person I get my rats from, small rats are 50-70 grams. Its $150 for 100 small rats if you buy 100 at a time. You can do the math. Check out therodentbarn.com. Your paying way to much. Medium at 100-140 grams are only $2 a piece if you buy 100 at a time. I am friends with the guy but I still pay the same prices as everyone else.

There are so many reasons why to feed outside of there enclosure. On the other spectrum there are so many reason why to just feed them in there enclosures. That is an argument that will never go away. Just like frozen/thawed vs live. I prefer not to allow a rat the chance to chew on my snakes while there struggling to get away and I also prefer feed off tongs out side of there enclosure to ensure they don't get a mouthful for bark stuck in there throat. I've also had snakes that get food aggressive when you approach there enclosures because they eat in the enclosures. I've had vets tell me to feed outside enclosures to prevent this, so i do.

On another note. Our girl seems to be a bit calmed down today. Probably because she full and acting like grandpa after thanksgiving dinner. I was able to open her lid with out her getting all twitchy and was able I pet her for a few minutes. I did not pick her up I repeat I did not pick her up. She wasn't tense and she didn't start breathing heavy. She seems a bit more relaxed.

[EL-Ziggy]

That's a great price on feeders rawkah. Does your guy sell rabbits and what are the shipping fees like? I use Big Cheese and Perfect Prey. I order mostly medium, large, and jumbo rats. I have 11 snakes and typically order a 4-6 month supply of feeders at a time. My snakes eat every 2-4 weeks on average.
I know it's an endless debate, and we may never agree, but I'm curious to hear the benefits you see in feeding outside a snake's enclosure. Do you move all your critters to feed them? ALL of my snakes are very food aggressive. Moving them when they're hyped for food would be a big mistake, and could even be dangerous, as they continue to grow. I can still feed most of them with tongs but for a couple of them it's tough enough to distract them, open the enclosure doors, and throw food in fast enough without getting tagged or having them flying out of the enclosure. Just last week my Olive python missed his rat and got my hand. That was no fun. Do I really want to open all those doors again after they've eaten and are still on the hunt for more food? No thanks.
I'm glad your girl was more mellow today. Hopefully she'll chill out even more after a little more time and a few more meals.

[punkrawkah]

Mainly the biggest benefit I see from my experiences with many snakes over the years is that they dont get amped when there doors open or lids come off. I have realy never had more that 2 at a time until now I have 10 and 4 more paid and on there way in the spring. I'll probably get a few more before my 4 het clowns get here. Even though my goal is breeding I still want them tamed down as much as possible for my kids sake. I have an 8 y/o and a 3 y/o and they are at my heels and my 3 y/o handles them as much as I do. My 8 y/o doesnt live with me but when shes here she has a snake in her hand or on her wrist from the moment she wakes until she goes to bed.

As u can probably guess I'm not at all stingy with food and admittedly probably over feed. My under 200 gram babys balls will usually eat 2 hoppers then refuse the third. If they do end up taking a 3rd I wont feed them for atleast 8 days.

I've been keeping records in excell for every feed, shed and I take everyone's weight every 2 weeks.

The biggest benefit I see from feedimg in another tub food aggression. My snakes dont get amped to eat until there in the feeding tub. I've never kept snakes for breeding before but after I sold my boa to get back into ball pythons I realy didnt realize that balls were such picky eaters. So far having a whole herd of snakes I havnt had any issues with them refusing a meal. When i had balls as a kid i never had any of my snakes refuse food either. All that being said I'm hoping when my females are big enough to breed that I wont have issues with fasting after they lay. I'm hoping that I can get them back on food as soon as I pull the clutch so we can keep them at a breedable weight at all times. I'm hoping they know that when there in the empty tub they associate that tub with it's time to eat.

If all my females or even half of them breed and lay I will probably end up feeding them in there tubs/enclosures. At that point I would be swimming in snakes and raising them to sell. So I probably wont have the time to pull all of them out.

I'll look into rabbits for ya tomarrow and let you know. I sold my boa because she we getting a bit to large for me to handle alone and my kids were way to curious and have absolutely no fear of getting bit. That's why I went back to ball pythons. Simple to care for super docile and if one was to latch on to a kid they probably wouldnt end up with stitches.

[dr del]

Oh yes - and it's huuuuuge.

Last feeding bit I got;





del

[punkrawkah]

Wow!!! My redtail boa would leave gnarly bits like that on me when she was grumpy.

[Bogertophis]

... I'm not going to feed her everyday though. But maybe twice a week 2 50 gram rats. Like I said some of you may disagree...

I don't advise that- digestion takes time, generally at least a week works best. Hope you realize that snakes have died from even just one regurgitation?

And chronic over-feeding kills snakes too, by "fatty liver disease". Rock on...