Unexpected babies...couple of questions

[Sunnieskys]

So we had a surprise clutch. 8 eggs, 4 babies hatched.

questions...

the show no interest in food...at all. Tried feeding them twice now with mouse hoppers. How long should we try to keep feeding before assist feeding? I sticky above said a couple of months??? I think that is way to long. They hatched out at 54-60g. They look to be getting that triangle shape. I'm getting worried. Three weeks out of the egg.

all separated and shed.
temps 80ambient, uth 90 with stat.
papertowels misted to hit 60%
all have hides
try to feed every three days.

[bcr229]

How long ago did they hatch? How long since their first shed?

Never mind, saw the hatch date was three weeks ago. I don't offer food until at least a week post-shed and some breeders wait longer.

[Tila]

Are you offering live or F/T? Also, offering every 3 days might be too frequently. I would try leaving them alone for a week, then trying a live fuzzy. Technically fuzzies are too small, but I've found that hoppers can be too darty for more timid hatchlings. After they take the first fuzzy, the next feeding you can try a hopper. Also, at first, only buy one or two live mice at a time because the first couple of feedings you may encounter refusals. As babies they also tend to be more triangular but if you weighed them you will be able to tell if they are beginning to lose more weight.

[rufretic]

I agree with above. I wait a week after shed, around 90-95% take the first time offered and the few that have not eat the next offering a week later. Live mouse hoppers are what I offer for first meal and definitely have the highest take rate vs others.

Stop trying to feed them so often, your stressing them out and decreasing the odds of them taking it. Wait a full week. Do not bother them at all for that week. Then drop in a live hopper in the evening and leave them alone. Check back 20 minutes later and odds are they will have eaten it assuming you have them in a good hatchling setup and they are not stressed for other reasons. If you're not sure, put them in the setup Deb describes in her sticky about feeding hatchlings. I have mine in a ARS hatchling rack but I had the same success when I had them in a homemade rack system using 8qt tubs. You want them in a small secure type of setup or they will feel too exposed, stress out and most likely won't eat.

You should read the sticky either way, it's helped many.

Good luck!

[Alicia]

Mostly just echoing what has already been said.

Awesome that they have hides. They're all in 6 qt shoe boxes in a rack, right? If you're misting daily, back it up a little. These are unhappy babies, and any unnecessary interaction is just making them more stressed.

Try dialing down the temperature. I keep my babies at 86-88 degrees as they seem to do better at these slightly lower temps.

Consider switching to a particulate substrate like aspen or cypress. Scared babies can feel more confident with a natural substrate, and cypress especially is better for humidity.

Yeah, offering every three days is WAY too much. The babies are already confused, over-offering only adds stress. Stress depletes condition. I literally did the same thing with my first clutch. Learning curves are rough on us, but they're even rougher on the hatchies. Definitely wait the full week before you try again with live rodents. My favorite to use are mouse fuzzies that have started to open their eyes and crawl around. They're just starting to eat solid foods, and so are less dangerous to leave in for 15-20 minutes. They're also less intimidating to scared babies. But hoppers are also great.

If they don't eat, wait another week and try again.

[Sunnieskys]

I agree with above. I wait a week after shed, around 90-95% take the first time offered and the few that have not eat the next offering a week later. Live mouse hoppers are what I offer for first meal and definitely have the highest take rate vs others.

Stop trying to feed them so often, your stressing them out and decreasing the odds of them taking it. Wait a full week. Do not bother them at all for that week. Then drop in a live hopper in the evening and leave them alone. Check back 20 minutes later and odds are they will have eaten it assuming you have them in a good hatchling setup and they are not stressed for other reasons. If you're not sure, put them in the setup Deb describes in her sticky about feeding hatchlings. I have mine in a ARS hatchling rack but I had the same success when I had them in a homemade rack system using 8qt tubs. You want them in a small secure type of setup or they will feel too exposed, stress out and most likely won't eat.

You should read the sticky either way, it's helped many.

Good luck!

I did read the sticky which is why i was confused on the months part of the not eating. Ok i will wait a week and try again. Also we are not feeding live. We are doing F/T. We dont want to do live unless absolutely last resort/necessary. I will also drop thw uth by 2 degrees. Also someone asked when they shed. They all shed out 6 days ago. Two of them 8 days ago.thank you everyone for replying. I feel better.

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk

[Alicia]

Also we are not feeding live. We are doing F/T. We dont want to do live unless absolutely last resort/necessary.

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk

Really, really think about feeding live. It's light years easier.

That said, I start most of my babies on F/T. It is not the same as feeding established juvies or adults. In case it helps, here's what I do:

Feed at night
Thaw the hoppers at room temp over the course of the afternoon/evening. Keep them dry.
Warm them to living mouse temperature. It helps if they're a smidge warmer. A blow dryer or light bulb works. (I use a light bulb)
Quietly slide open the tub, lay in the warmed rodent, and close it. Try to keep it quiet, and do not zombie dance the rodents. Just quietly lay them on the substrate and walk away.
Lights go out, I don't bug them again until the morning. Then I'll change water, remove any rodents, clean any dirty cages, whatever. Then I leave the babies alone as much as possible for a whole 7 days and their next offering.

If I'm starting a new clutch, everyone starts on paper towels. Babies that don't eat after 2 offerings get switched to cypress. Then they're offered 2 more times. I give babies four tries to start on F/T. Fifth offer is a live rodent.

Meant to add -
Just shedding six days ago is super recent. They're not be hungry yet. I give babies a full week after their first shed before I even bother trying to feed them.

[rufretic]

I did read the sticky which is why i was confused on the months part of the not eating. Ok i will wait a week and try again. Also we are not feeding live. We are doing F/T. We dont want to do live unless absolutely last resort/necessary. I will also drop thw uth by 2 degrees. Also someone asked when they shed. They all shed out 6 days ago. Two of them 8 days ago.thank you everyone for replying. I feel better.

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk

Ok I missed the F/T thing. This is probably your problem, the instinct just doesn't kick in, they don't even recognize it as food because they have not learned the smell. Some aggressive feeders will take F/T for the first meal but from my experience it's about 1/30 so odds are stacked against you. I never pushed for it, I feed almost exclusively F/T but once I had bad results with my hatchlings, I switched to first meal live and then convert them to F/T. Most of them go to F/T the very next meal but that's because now your odds are greatly increased because they recognize the smell. For that first feeding they need every little detail telling their instincts to strike so that natural movement is near impossible to replicate and very important. All it takes is one feeding and now they know the smell so they are much easier to convince the F/T is food. It really is so easy to convert hatchlings because they are so hungry they are not picky, they are just confused. So that's how I do it anyway, I think it would save you a lot of headaches.

I wanted to just touch on the hopper vs fuzzy as well. I had very little success with the fuzzies and a breeder friend of mine told me to go with hoppers instead and his reasoning was, they actually need that jittery fast movement, especially the timid ones because they are not going to actively go find where a fuzzies might be laying. Instead the hopper comes to them at some point and if the hatchling passes on that first go, it isn't long before the hopper is over there irritating them again. This repetitive agitation usually leads to the hatchling getting irritated enough to strike. It makes sense to me and it has proven true for me in a big way. I had 1 out of 10 take the fuzzies and then all remaining 9 took the hoppers, that was one of my first clutches, never tried a fuzzy again, never needed to, I've had extremely good luck getting all my hatchlings to take hoppers, almost all by the second offering.

[Bogertophis]

Ok I missed the F/T thing. This is probably your problem, the instinct just doesn't kick in, they don't even recognize it as food because they have not learned the smell. Some aggressive feeders will take F/T for the first meal but from my experience it's about 1/30 so odds are stacked against you...

This applies to most snakes, IMO- not just BPs. Much as I advocate feeding f/t, the first meal is better off live so those instincts kick in.

[Danger noodles]

Not to hammer the point in but I’d say 99% of breeders start off with live. Then after a few meals swap to f/t. I’m 100% for feeding frozen but that’s to protect the snake. And the tiny mice/rats can’t really do much harm as they are babies too. So I keep an eye on them to make sure the rodent isn’t biting the snake after I hear the strike.

So id say throw a live one in there at night, close it up and sit close and wait for the strike and after a little I peek in to where they don’t notice me. If everything is good I let him take it from there