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  1. #1
    Registered User Albert420's Avatar
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    General questions / Do you dare ?

    Hi all

    I am a fairly new ball python owner I have one male spider/desert morph ,(yes I am aware of its fertility problems and wobble), at least I am now, when getting the snake at first i wasn't told anything except its a small condition and this particular one has does not have a bad wobble and I wasnt polanning on breeding and I still am not planning on breeding even if I was I would NEVER breed any genes that have problems especially spider.

    I did not do enough research and hay the bloke said that the wobble wasnt bad and maybe it wasnt but ive read a new home can go from no wobble to severe in a matter of days, so now my boy Franky does a corkscrew from time to time and balance is not really on point.

    I decided to confront the the breeder and he assured me that he is sorry and he will give me a refund and that he does not breed with them , they are actually rescues from people that did not want him because of his condition. Below photos will follow of the spider morph and the enclosure setups, please note temperatures are in Celsius and not Fahrenheit.

    this brings me to Franky the spider morph ( Top enclosure ):

    https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._21.03.42.jpeg
    some general questions : our humidity is way high and the "driest" i get it is 70-75% please tell me this is acceptable as ive tried a lot of tricks and really ndont ghave the cash for a 200$ dehumidifier right now , i have put in some rice jars with holes in them to absorb some more of the air moisture, but that only brings it down to like 70 and 68 on a good day.

    His hot hide belly heat is 32.1 degrees Celsius and cold side in-between 24 and 27 Degrees Celsius ambient temperature he has no problem feeding.

    Today was a bit more warm and his ambient temperature reached 32 degrees Celsius.
    He was very active today during the day time which is not usually the case the last few weeks of monitoring him.

    Usually only active at night hunting mode , I eventually cooled out his enclosure but that still didnt stop him from being active is something wrong or is he exploring cos its hot and a nice summers day ? It rarely reaches 96 degrees so its not blazing hot either.

    I also use a fan to blow onto his enclosure this helps a tiny bit for hot days and also brings the humidity down with 2 or 3%

    Whenever i switch the fan on he comes out his hide exploring doesnt matter day or night, tongue flickering not like his unhappy but maybe just the new smells he is smelling ? or should i rather stop doing this ?

    He weighs about 680 grams how much should his food weigh if i feed him once a week ? im currently have him on hoppers and they weigh about 40 grams. Not all to surer about his weight i used my hand as scale but its close to 700 im sure ? Ive had franky 3 weeks.

    I really dont want my snakes to get infections due to too high humidity.
    Introducing Boris (bottom enclosure) :

    https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._21.03.42.jpeg
    After talking to the breeder i thought i want a "normal" bp and i got the butter pastel enchi ive had him for about 3 days an got him while he was in shed and is still busy shedding he doesnt do anything at all just moves to cold hide during day and cold hide during night his temps are exactly the same on the cold and hot side and his humidity is 75% as well.

    This is okay for him cos he is shedding i presume ? Hoping to see more of him for now i have is total enclosure closed off so its nice and dark and he can shed in peace , i just check temps and fresh water daily for 3 consecutive days now. He is about 890 grams give or take and about 5 inches longer than Franky (spider morph).

    What size should he be feeding on ? can i both feed them the same size ? he is not much thicker than the spider but i believe the dealer had him breeding so he was in fasting for 4 months as he mated with 3 females poor dude lol.

    Sorry for all the rambling, but i felt its needed so its easier to understand my questions and scenario.

    Temps are all controlled by thermostats connected to heat-pads but covered with tinfoil and newspaper and only then substrate for extra safety.

    The belly temp is on point as I have the sensor probe fixed to the substrate they are lying on and sealed off from their touch to prevent false indication.

    both ball pythons are just just over a year id say 13 months.

    Alternative pics of setups sizes and temps :

    Boris bottom enclosure :
    https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._21.03.42.jpeg

    Humidity and ambient temps :
    https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._21.03.43.jpeg

    Belly heat for both pythons on "hot" hides :
    https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...1.03.43_1.jpeg

    Not sure of weight but here is size with my hand as a scale :
    https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._21.03.45.jpeg

    Thanks to all in advanced

  2. #2
    Registered User Albert420's Avatar
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    Re: General questions / Do you dare ?

    Please help me


    PS. I decided i cannot give a animal back just cause of his condition so i decided to keep him with a smaller more secure setup . for his own safety preventing him from climbing and falling etc
    Last edited by Albert420; 11-15-2019 at 03:50 PM.

  3. #3
    BPnet Veteran Craiga 01453's Avatar
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    https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ing-Guidelines

    Here is a feeding chart to help you out.

    Unfortunately it's too late now, but you obviously didn't quarantine when the second snake arrived.

    I don't mean to be a jerk, but if you can't afford to buy equipment for the animals why'd you bring them home? As keepers it's our responsibility to provide what they need. It's also important to have money stashed away for emergency vet trips, equipment failures, etc... Otherwise they shouldn't be brought home.

    I'm sorry the breeder you got the spider from was dishonest. For him to tell you one day the wobble isn't bad to telling you another day that he was a rescue nobody else wanted was extremely unethical and I would never do business with that person.
    ...life is beautiful...

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    1.0 Vanilla het Pied BP - Tyson
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    1.0 California Kingsnake - Django
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    1.0 Borneo Short Tail Python - Juice
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  5. #4
    Registered User Albert420's Avatar
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    Re: General questions / Do you dare ?

    I have had the animals only for 3 weeks at most and no one told me anything about quarantining although i did do a thorough cleaning of both enclosures with a antibacterial spray and rinsed oput with clean water afterwards.

    i couldn't give the spider back that would be wrong so i now had to buy equipment for two snakes around these parts the equipment is not cheap so i think you might be a bit harsh on my post dude, but no worries , dehumidifier will be here in two weeks and in the mean time i will keep doing the bowl of ice behind the fan , this helps a lot for humidity , but cant do it for too long otherwise ambient temp drops, and i have all the top of the range equipment because i want the best for them.

    It is just the dehumidifier which is missing, thanks so much for your help

  6. #5
    BPnet Veteran Craiga 01453's Avatar
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    Nobody is supposed to tell you. You're supposed to do your own research before bringing animals home. They aren't our snakes, they're yours. So it's YOUR responsibility to know about quarantine.

    And I'm not being harsh, I'm being honest. These are living creatures and if you can't afford to properly care for them you shouldn't bring them home. Nobody made you add a second snake, that was your choice.
    ...life is beautiful...

    0.1 Bredli Python - Fernie
    1.0 Vanilla het Pied BP - Tyson
    1.0 Pastel Fader BP - Dembe
    1.0 California Kingsnake - Django
    1.0 Western Hognose - Cosmo
    1.0 Borneo Short Tail Python - Juice
    1.0 Anery Kenyan Sando Boa - Willow
    2.2 Ferrets - Baloo, Johnny & June and Chloe
    0.2 Cats - Simba & Nala

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  8. #6
    Registered User Moose84's Avatar
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    Re: General questions / Do you dare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert420 View Post
    Hi all

    I am a fairly new ball python owner I have one male spider/desert morph ,(yes I am aware of its fertility problems and wobble), at least I am now, when getting the snake at first i wasn't told anything except its a small condition and this particular one has does not have a bad wobble and I wasnt polanning on breeding and I still am not planning on breeding even if I was I would NEVER breed any genes that have problems especially spider.

    This part confuses me... But I think the gist of it is that you aren't planning on breeding an animal that already has a severe neuro deficit so thats good. Give it a couple months before you write it off. They generally are worse (wobble) when they are stressed out...

    I did not do enough research and hay the bloke said that the wobble wasnt bad and maybe it wasnt but ive read a new home can go from no wobble to severe in a matter of days, so now my boy Franky does a corkscrew from time to time and balance is not really on point.

    If you don't think you can care for the animal appropriately find someone who will. Give yourself more than 30 minutes to make that decision.

    I decided to confront the the breeder and he assured me that he is sorry and he will give me a refund and that he does not breed with them , they are actually rescues from people that did not want him because of his condition. Below photos will follow of the spider morph and the enclosure setups, please note temperatures are in Celsius and not Fahrenheit.

    this brings me to Franky the spider morph ( Top enclosure ):

    https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._21.03.42.jpeg
    some general questions : our humidity is way high and the "driest" i get it is 70-75% please tell me this is acceptable as ive tried a lot of tricks and really ndont ghave the cash for a 200$ dehumidifier right now , i have put in some rice jars with holes in them to absorb some more of the air moisture, but that only brings it down to like 70 and 68 on a good day.

    There is nothing at all wrong with those levels without the rice... Some people on here would kill for that that keep animals in tanks... Not being able to spare 200 dollars on the animals is slightly concerning. If something goes wrong how would you get it the proper care?

    His hot hide belly heat is 32.1 degrees Celsius and cold side in-between 24 and 27 Degrees Celsius ambient temperature he has no problem feeding.

    Sounds great if google is right on the conversion..

    Today was a bit more warm and his ambient temperature reached 32 degrees Celsius.
    He was very active today during the day time which is not usually the case the last few weeks of monitoring him.

    Usually only active at night hunting mode , I eventually cooled out his enclosure but that still didnt stop him from being active is something wrong or is he exploring cos its hot and a nice summers day ? It rarely reaches 96 degrees so its not blazing hot either.

    I think you are messing with the animal too much. I'd leave it alone for a while if he is eating.

    I also use a fan to blow onto his enclosure this helps a tiny bit for hot days and also brings the humidity down with 2 or 3%

    I wouldn't blow a fan onto the enclosure as this will dramatically cool the snake. Room to keep stagnation out yes, but not directly on the animal..

    Whenever i switch the fan on he comes out his hide exploring doesnt matter day or night, tongue flickering not like his unhappy but maybe just the new smells he is smelling ? or should i rather stop doing this ?

    Stop

    He weighs about 680 grams how much should his food weigh if i feed him once a week ? im currently have him on hoppers and they weigh about 40 grams. Not all to surer about his weight i used my hand as scale but its close to 700 im sure ? Ive had franky 3 weeks.

    Hopper mice? They weigh like 10 grams. He should be eating small rats.

    I really dont want my snakes to get infections due to too high humidity.

    I would try not to worry about humidity so much.

    I wouldn't worry about this.
    Introducing Boris (bottom enclosure) :

    https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._21.03.42.jpeg
    After talking to the breeder i thought i want a "normal" bp and i got the butter pastel enchi ive had him for about 3 days an got him while he was in shed and is still busy shedding he doesnt do anything at all just moves to cold hide during day and cold hide during night his temps are exactly the same on the cold and hot side and his humidity is 75% as well.

    His shed should be good because of all the humidity.

    This is okay for him cos he is shedding i presume ? Hoping to see more of him for now i have is total enclosure closed off so its nice and dark and he can shed in peace , i just check temps and fresh water daily for 3 consecutive days now. He is about 890 grams give or take and about 5 inches longer than Franky (spider morph).

    Leave them alone. You are messing with them too much. They only need their water changed out when it is low or when you clean.

    What size should he be feeding on ? can i both feed them the same size ? he is not much thicker than the spider but i believe the dealer had him breeding so he was in fasting for 4 months as he mated with 3 females poor dude lol.

    Nice zing. He should be eating small rats as well. So yes you can feed them the same size.

    Sorry for all the rambling, but i felt its needed so its easier to understand my questions and scenario.

    Temps are all controlled by thermostats connected to heat-pads but covered with tinfoil and newspaper and only then substrate for extra safety.

    The belly temp is on point as I have the sensor probe fixed to the substrate they are lying on and sealed off from their touch to prevent false indication.

    both ball pythons are just just over a year id say 13 months.

    Alternative pics of setups sizes and temps :

    Boris bottom enclosure :
    https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._21.03.42.jpeg

    Humidity and ambient temps :
    https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._21.03.43.jpeg

    Belly heat for both pythons on "hot" hides :
    https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...1.03.43_1.jpeg

    Not sure of weight but here is size with my hand as a scale :
    https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._21.03.45.jpeg

    Thanks to all in advanced
    I think this about covers it. Main points being, don't worry about the humidity so much and leave them alone. They aren't like dogs or cats. They will do just fine by themselves..

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  10. #7
    Telling it like it is! Stewart_Reptiles's Avatar
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    You are keeping it too hot to start with 30/31 on the warm side is the most you should provide for a spider.

    I see you keep saying no one told me about spider gene, no one told me to quarentine, I will be honest as a pet owner it is YOUR job to do some research and know what to expect when acquiring an animal whether it is a dog, cat, snake etc now what you need is deal with the issue at end and take it as a lesson learn which is also a great reminder of why it is important to buy from a reputable breeder.

    A spider with wobble is not the end of the world the majority will do fine if kept in an optimum way, limited stress, lower temperture etc.
    Deborah Stewart

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  12. #8
    Registered User Albert420's Avatar
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    Re: General questions / Do you dare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moose84 View Post
    I think this about covers it. Main points being, don't worry about the humidity so much and leave them alone. They aren't like dogs or cats. They will do just fine by themselves..

    Dude thanks for the reply and way to go on all those questions answered!

    I do really appreciate it and im a noob a noob makes mistakes now i know what to do and not to do i will let them be , i want to handle one of them so badly but i will wait 2 more weeks before interacting with them plus i really am still a bit affraid lol , i do know when to handle and when not to handle btw atleast two days after feeding but i would give it 3 and not more than 3 times a week ?

  13. #9
    Registered User Moose84's Avatar
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    Re: General questions / Do you dare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stewart_Reptiles View Post
    You are keeping it too hot to start with 30/31 on the warm side is the most you should provide for a spider.

    I see you keep saying no one told me about spider gene, no one told me to quarentine, I will be honest as a pet owner it is YOUR job to do some research and know what to expect when acquiring an animal whether it is a dog, cat, snake etc now what you need is deal with the issue at end and take it as a lesson learn which is also a great reminder of why it is important to buy from a reputable breeder.

    A spider with wobble is not the end of the world the majority will do fine if kept in an optimum way, limited stress, lower temperture etc.

    She has forgot more about the spider gene than I will ever know so trust her here. I only have one of them and he doesn't wobble or corkscrew.. I have never bred them either.

  14. #10
    Registered User Albert420's Avatar
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    Re: General questions / Do you dare ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craiga 01453 View Post
    Nobody is supposed to tell you. You're supposed to do your own research before bringing animals home. They aren't our snakes, they're yours. So it's YOUR responsibility to know about quarantine.

    And I'm not being harsh, I'm being honest. These are living creatures and if you can't afford to properly care for them you shouldn't bring them home. Nobody made you add a second snake, that was your choice.

    Surely not you or anyone else on this forum no , but the breeder should have at least said listen get your enclosures and rooms quarantined.

    My snakes will have proper care thanks.

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