Advice for my pickiest eater?

[RedRabbit]

In a story we've probably all seen and heard many times before -- one of my ball pythons, Iggy, has gone off feeding. He hit the 7-week mark for refusals this past weekend. His compatriot, Rae, who is kept in the exact same husbandry conditions, has remained a voracious eater every week without fail. My two boas are also eating well ... but then again, they're boas, so no surprises there. To avoid errors of complacency, I wanted to ask everyone here to make sure I haven't missed anything while troubleshooting Iggy's case.

Iggy's Statistics!

Age: 1 year and 3 months
Morph: Cinnamon Enchi Ghost
Sex: Male

Feeding pattern: Fairly easy transition from mice to rats, and from live to f/t, within a couple months at the end of last year. Was eating every 7 days, but had a slow-down in August/September, when it became more like every 10-14 days. Officially started this current refusal streak at the end of September.

Weight trend: Steadily increasing until end of September - he grew from a little 112g hatchling last winter to a peak of 479g on 9/21/19. However, he unloaded a VERY large poop on 9/28/19 that brought him down to a (probably more accurate) 454g. His most recent weight was taken after a similarly enormous pee, and was 431g as of 11/3/19.

Shedding: Approximately every 2 months, perfect sheds each time since the beginning of this year. His last shed was actually just about a week ago, on 10/28/19.

Activity level: No notable changes from his baseline. Sleeps hidden away in his warm hide during the day, and comes out to cruise around for a couple of hours each night.

Husbandry Stats

Enclosure: 32qt Sterilite tub - dimensions approx. 23 5/8" x 16 3/8" x 6 1/2"
- 2 hides (warm side, cool side), 1 water dish, 2 plastic plants for decoration/cover, Acurite thermometer/hygrometer
- Paper towel substrate
- Water changed every 3-4 days
Warm (UTH, regulated by Herpstat): 88 F; recently tried bumping this up slightly to 89 F
Cool: 78 F; recently required some adjustments with a space heater to counteract the nights growing colder, but never dropped below 75F
*Temperatures are double-checked with infrared temperature gun.

"Housemates": My other BP, Rae, is housed in a neighboring tub with an identical setup. My sister's crested gecko is in a small Exo-Terra terrarium on the opposite side of the room. My two boas are quarantined in a completely separate location. Human foot-traffic is low in any of the rooms with reptiles in them. Our dog is not allowed into these rooms. All animals appear to be in good health at this time. My family and I observe firm hand-washing rules before and after handling each reptile.

Other factors I've considered so far:
- Breeding season? Iggy seems a bit young for that, but who knows.
- Approaching winter? The onset seemed a tad too early for that, as well.
- Outgrowing his stuff? His favored warm hide - a rock cave with a closed bottom and a top portion that can be taken off like a lid - has become a bit of a snug fit lately. He can still curl up inside it completely, but he'll often end up dislodging and lifting up the top "lid" when he's shifting around to change position. The thick bottom surface of the hide also means that his hotspot temp permeates less reliably. With this in mind, I'm planning to order some of the simple black plastic hides from Reptile Basics, and switch both Iggy and Rae to appropriately sized ones.

[cletus]

I've only ever had one BP that went on fasts. I would always downsize the enclosure and downsize the prey. Pre-scent the enclosure if you need to. I would't offer for a week or so after they refuse. Downsizing the prey seems to be the biggest factor in my experience.

[ballpythonsrock2]

Weight trend: Steadily increasing until end of September - he grew from a little 112g hatchling last winter to a peak of 479g on 9/21/19. However, he unloaded a VERY large poop on 9/28/19 that brought him down to a (probably more accurate) 454g. His most recent weight was taken after a similarly enormous pee, and was 431g as of 11/3/19.

Shedding: Approximately every 2 months, perfect sheds each time since the beginning of this year. His last shed was actually just about a week ago, on 10/28/19.



Enclosure: 32qt Sterilite tub - dimensions approx. 23 5/8" x 16 3/8" x 6 1/2"
- 2 hides (warm side, cool side), 1 water dish, 2 plastic plants for decoration/cover, Acurite thermometer/hygrometer
- Paper towel substrate
- Water changed every 3-4 days
Warm (UTH, regulated by Herpstat): 88 F; recently tried bumping this up slightly to 89 F
Cool: 78 F; recently required some adjustments with a space heater to counteract the nights growing colder, but never dropped below 75F
*Temperatures are double-checked with infrared temperature gun.

The thick bottom surface of the hide also means that his hotspot temp permeates less reliably. With this in mind, I'm planning to order some of the simple black plastic hides from Reptile Basics, and switch both Iggy and Rae to appropriately sized ones.

I think IMO you might find your problem possibly solved after you put in the new simple black hides from Reptile Basics. Have you ever took the temp of the bottom of the hide (inside where the snake lays) with that kind of hide you have to wonder how much heat is actually getting in there from the UTH.

And I think you will find they eat better when the ambient is in the low 80's as well. I have seen how that raising the ambient temp into the lower 80's has affected my snake's activity and hunger. But having closer access to the uth after putting the new hides in might be all it takes. Less than 500 grams that snake should still be eating pretty good at this stage, but shedding does often affect their hunger and you said it just came out of shed a week ago.

[RedRabbit]

I've only ever had one BP that went on fasts. I would always downsize the enclosure and downsize the prey. Pre-scent the enclosure if you need to. I would't offer for a week or so after they refuse. Downsizing the prey seems to be the biggest factor in my experience.

Thanks for the tips, cletus. Once the new hides arrive, I'll be able to get an idea of what tub dimensions I might be able to downsize to, while still fitting the hides in the right configuration. And yes, I've been spacing it out by a week between feed offerings; I found out fairly quickly that re-attempting an offer after 2-3 days rarely changed the outcome and just resulted in wasting a rat. Your point about downsizing the prey did remind me that my two BPs are now in different size brackets. I just ran out of the weanling rats, so I'll need to buy a new supply of those, in the smaller size range, for Iggy. My other boy is over 600g and can be tackling small rats without issue.

[Zincubus]

As mentioned above ... surface heat ( especially under the hides is critical)

I’d suggest everyone has a digital temp gun to test all the surface temps randomly.. they’re under a tenner on eBay / Amazon


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[RedRabbit]

I think IMO you might find your problem possibly solved after you put in the new simple black hides from Reptile Basics. Have you ever took the temp of the bottom of the hide (inside where the snake lays) with that kind of hide you have to wonder how much heat is actually getting in there from the UTH.

And I think you will find they eat better when the ambient is in the low 80's as well. I have seen how that raising the ambient temp into the lower 80's has affected my snake's activity and hunger. But having closer access to the uth after putting the new hides in might be all it takes. Less than 500 grams that snake should still be eating pretty good at this stage, but shedding does often affect their hunger and you said it just came out of shed a week ago.

Thank you for your advice. I do hope changing the hides is at least a step in the right direction. Yes, I've taken the temp on the inside surface of the hide a few times. When it had the help of the California summer heat (ambient temps easily staying at 80 F), it did okay at around 86-87 F, but now that the nights are cooling off, it's closer to 85 F, which was what prompted me to dial up the Herpstat setting a bit. However, I was also hesitant to turn it up too much, since Iggy is strong enough now to sometimes nudge the hide out of place while he's roaming around outside it. I'll probably try turning up the space heater to bump up the ambient temp to 80 F as well. If my sister feels the room is getting a bit too warm for her crested gecko, we could relocate his tank if necessary.

[RedRabbit]

As mentioned above ... surface heat ( especially under the hides is critical)

I’d suggest everyone has a digital temp gun to test all the surface temps randomly.. they’re under a tenner on eBay / Amazon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Haha, yes! I actually mentioned it (the digital temp gun, I mean) in an asterisk above. I think I bought my temp gun and had it ready before I even purchased my first snake. Definitely one of the most useful tools in the reptile toolbox.

[RedRabbit]

Good news, friends! (Though I don't want to celebrate too prematurely.) This evening I offered a slightly smaller weaned rat, pre-killed instead of f/t, and Iggy ate it! Rather enthusiastically, too. Other than the prey being pre-killed, the only other change made so far had been bumping up the ambient temp from 78 F to 80 F, since the newly ordered hides haven't arrived yet.

I'm probably going to keep offering pre-killed for another 2 or 3 consecutive successful feedings before I try moving back to f/t again. As for swapping in the new hides ... he's going to need the upgrade in size soon enough, but since a major change in his home turf can be a stressor too, I may wait until we're at least past the more finicky period of the winter/breeding season, or if he starts refusing again, before I make the switch. Does this sound reasonable?

[Bogertophis]

Good news, friends! (Though I don't want to celebrate too prematurely.) This evening I offered a slightly smaller weaned rat, pre-killed instead of f/t, and Iggy ate it! Rather enthusiastically, too. Other than the prey being pre-killed, the only other change made so far had been bumping up the ambient temp from 78 F to 80 F, since the newly ordered hides haven't arrived yet.

I'm probably going to keep offering pre-killed for another 2 or 3 consecutive successful feedings before I try moving back to f/t again. As for swapping in the new hides ... he's going to need the upgrade in size soon enough, but since a major change in his home turf can be a stressor too, I may wait until we're at least past the more finicky period of the winter/breeding season, or if he starts refusing again, before I make the switch. Does this sound reasonable?

Pre-killed can sometimes work magic. Good plan!

[RedRabbit]

Another successful pre-killed feeding for Iggy tonight! This is encouraging ...