Ball python spazzing out during the day

[Bogertophis]

I have to disagree with u a little, I don’t like the idea of a snake room. And maybe u might not know what this snake room is. I don’t mind a room just to house your snake enclosures in and u keep other pets out. But this was a room for him to hang out in sometimes for hours and it’s not good to leave any snake unattended ever, nor should they have more than one enclosure. The op is stepping in the right direction and hopefully keeps going that way, Crowley will be happy for every step that’s in his best interest

Hate to tell you this, but there's more than one way to enjoy our snakes. I no longer have a spare room to do this with, but I used to do something similar with some of my snakes (that were big enough they couldn't get into trouble, not with a hatchling Cal. king I had at the time, for example). I didn't go to the elaborate extent that Valyndris does with things to climb on, or "hides" specifically for the snakes, but I used to let a snake roam a safe room for a hour to several to get some exercise, often while I was in another room (door closed, obviously). These were not ball pythons...I didn't have BPs then (they came later), but the snakes I did this with seemed to enjoy their outings.

And I still have a real tree (a branchy part of one anyway) that I have a metal base for that my rat snakes like to climb in for a while -with supervision of course, since they can easily shimmy right down to the floor.

So you "don't like the idea of a snake room"? Fine, don't do that. But stop berating someone for not doing everything exactly as you do...let's try to have an open mind, eh?

Especially when there is no real reason to say it's wrong, other than you wanting to blame the snake's fast & current discomfort on that. One of the problems with many pet snakes these days is that they live out their lives in utter boredom in storage containers & get fat laying around. I don't happen to agree with what some of you all do either, but I don't disrespect you. We are mostly adults here & we should be able to discuss different methods without insults & ganging up on anyone who doesn't conform totally to the "herd" here. It's also NOT a crime to be anthropomorphic about one's pets... Let's focus on what actually does need improvement (like the snake not being near the bird) & not pick apart the other harmless choices that this or any other owner may make, just because it's not how YOU do things.

If there's one way to kill a forum, it's having everyone gang up on any keeper who dares defy the "prevailing opinion"...pretty soon, no one dares express their own opinion or share something that might even be BETTER than what you do...and pretty soon, there's no reason for anyone to join, since nothing ever changes...no mistakes but no growth either. We've all heard these complaints about Facebook groups (& many have experienced them personally), let's not turn into that here. Please...?

[MarkL1561]

You mean the videos like he's "excited" after a fresh shed but really he's just trying to get away from you because you constantly over stimulate him?

This is the main issue. I can't tell if you just don't understand or refuse to understand. Everyone is telling you you're anthropomorphising your snake to the point you can't even recognize basic stress signals unless it's blantantly obvious.

You care more for your idea of Crowley instead of what Crowley actually is. You're totally choosing your feelings over his well being because you can't give up on this fantasy that you have a super special, unique world's first snake that acts like a dog and want to prove to the entire world he has an unbreakable bond with you.

Yep, said this a while ago while the snake was having “problems”. We’re really NOT trying to be mean here. We’re trying to get the owner to realize they have a snake not a dog. The animal deserves respect for what it is and I don’t think it’s getting it. If you tried this crap with something less “wimpy” like a blood, the owner would have some battle scars.


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[Danger noodles]

Hate to tell you this, but there's more than one way to enjoy our snakes. I no longer have a spare room to do this with, but I used to do something similar with some of my snakes (that were big enough they couldn't get into trouble, not with a hatchling Cal. king I had at the time, for example). I didn't go to the elaborate extent that Valyndris does with things to climb on, or "hides" specifically for the snakes, but I used to let a snake roam a safe room for a hour to several to get some exercise, often while I was in another room (door closed, obviously). These were not ball pythons...I didn't have BPs then (they came later), but the snakes I did this with seemed to enjoy their outings.

And I still have a real tree (a branchy part of one anyway) that I have a metal base for that my rat snakes like to climb in for a while -with supervision of course, since they can easily shimmy right down to the floor.

So you "don't like the idea of a snake room"? Fine, don't do that. But stop berating someone for not doing everything exactly as you do...let's try to have an open mind, eh?

Especially when there is no real reason to say it's wrong, other than you wanting to blame the snake's fast & current discomfort on that. One of the problems with many pet snakes these days is that they live out their lives in utter boredom in storage containers & get fat laying around. I don't happen to agree with what some of you all do either, but I don't disrespect you. We are mostly adults here & we should be able to discuss different methods without insults & ganging up on anyone who doesn't conform totally to the "herd" here. It's also NOT a crime to be anthropomorphic about one's pets... Let's focus on what actually does need improvement (like the snake not being near the bird) & not pick apart the other harmless choices that this or any other owner may make, just because it's not how YOU do things.

If there's one way to kill a forum, it's having everyone gang up on any keeper who dares defy the "prevailing opinion"...pretty soon, no one dares express their own opinion or share something that might even be BETTER than what you do...and pretty soon, there's no reason for anyone to join, since nothing ever changes...no mistakes but no growth either. We've all heard these complaints about Facebook groups (& many have experienced them personally), let's not turn into that here. Please...?

funny how the first sentence I said in that post was “ I have to disagree with U a little” but I guess when u read that it said “ I’m right all the time and no one should do anything different”

and no I don’t like the way the op had two different cages and a room that they would put the ball python in. I don’t ever recommend it. But I do like in the USA and if u wanted to do that then so be it.

I can have members on here pm you if u would like that when they were getting attacked I pm’ed them and told them we are just trying to help and not to get offended and stick around since this is a great place. Members that have posted in this exact thread. So maybe u should think twice before judging me.

[Danger noodles]

And this is my opinion but I don’t think anyone that doesn’t have years of knowledge to try something like letting a snake go unattended in a room.

I really want this thread to go back to helping the op since it seems that she is already heading in the right direction. So let’s keep it that way so this doesn’t get closed and someday it might help someone else that like me reads way more than I post

[Zincubus]

And this is my opinion but I don’t think anyone that doesn’t have years of knowledge to try something like letting a snake go unattended in a room.

I really want this thread to go back to helping the op since it seems that she is already heading in the right direction. So let’s keep it that way so this doesn’t get closed and someday it might help someone else that like me reads way more than I post

This

It gave be the jitters to think of a snake having free roam of a whole room !!


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[Luraelyn]

I can see that you love your snake, but I agree with all the posts above about not using a snake room, and to simply see your snake as a snake.

This is particularly important, as I looked at your youtube channel and found you "massaging" your snake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn3RZdVmVBE

I'm a new snake owner myself. I don't claim to be an expert. I am sure you're treating your snake with good intentions, but I'm not sure that is your snake enjoying the massage.

I have noticed a lot of people interpreting their snake's actions as enjoyment. I personally know a guy (who's owned a snake far longer than I have) who fills his tub up with water and let's his snake swim around because he thinks she likes it. In reality the snake is probably terrified.

I'm not saying you are terrorizing your snake, but I wouldn't be so quick to see everything as a positive reaction.

Best of luck with Crowley, he is beautiful and you clearly care for him.

[Bogertophis]

...I really want this thread to go back to helping the op since it seems that she is already heading in the right direction. So let’s keep it that way so this doesn’t get closed and someday it might help someone else that like me reads way more than I post

So do I...I just want this to stay constructive & not insulting, & with some respect for other methods that may not be the real issue, even though you don't like them.

FYI, I've PM'd my share of members here, or they've PM'd me for advice, sometimes afraid to post on the forum knowing they'd be jumped on. But we all learn more when the discussion includes everyone...so long as there's no bashing. Peace...

[Danger noodles]

So do I...I just want this to stay constructive & not insulting, & with some respect for other methods that may not be the real issue, even though you don't like them.

FYI, I've PM'd my share of members here, or they've PM'd me for advice, sometimes afraid to post on the forum knowing they'd be jumped on. But we all learn more when the discussion includes everyone...so long as there's no bashing. Peace...

So u don’t think it’s an issue that she has two different tanks and a room that this snake has to spend time in? I don’t know about other specific snakes but I’m pretty sure one enclosure is better for this member. Her snake is acting up and not eating. If I’m wrong ok, but I’d like to learn where this advice is bad. I can’t see how spending the night in one tank, then part of the day in a different one, then let loose in a room for a few hours, then put back in the other tank isn’t stressful to the snake. I’m all ears to how wrong to say what I did. Because I thought that was helpful.

[Bogertophis]

So u don’t think it’s an issue that she has two different tanks and a room that this snake has to spend time in? I don’t know about other specific snakes but I’m pretty sure one enclosure is better for this member. Her snake is acting up and not eating. If I’m wrong ok, but I’d like to learn where this advice is bad. I can’t see how spending the night in one tank, then part of the day in a different one, then let loose in a room for a few hours, then put back in the other tank isn’t stressful to the snake. I’m all ears to how wrong to say what I did. Because I thought that was helpful.

That's not the post I was referring to (about bashing) & I PM'd you specifically about that post...

I also agree that any snake will feel more secure when they have only ONE enclosure to "call home"...I actually PM'd the OP about that a while back, so it wouldn't get lost in all the chaos. I was worried that she would stop responding or leave the forum after some rude things were posted under the guise of "meaning well" for the snake.

I'm not at all convinced that a pillow (aka "bed") inside a hide makes one bit of difference -beyond not allowing enough heat to rise from the substrate IF & when using UTH. If that hide was the "cool" side hide, I'm quite sure that the snake is completely used to the scent & feel of such a "bed" & that's also not an issue. The biggest problem with using any sort of pillow or pet bed like that in a snake enclosure is that it will trap germs & be very difficult to wash & sanitize effectively, becoming a potential health risk.

I can recall posts from other keepers whose snakes seem to enjoy (or had no choice about) using a towel or blanket as substrate. The other issue with using any sort of fabric in a snake cage comes when snakes are fed: their teeth easily catch on fabric nearby when swallowing their prey, & if the fabric item is swallowed, it's not digestible & becomes a life-threatening medical emergency (& a very pricey surgery, I might add). That risk could be minimized if the object was removed at feeding time, but for such easily distressed snakes as ball pythons, that very interruption would likely make them refuse dinner. (For other snakes that aren't so shy, you'll get bit by a hungry snake when you reach in for it, LOL!)

I think it helps to explain WHY we suggest the changes that we do- who enjoys being harshly criticized & told that "everything they're doing is wrong"? In the case of the pet bed, as I recall someone suggested that the fuzzy texture was probably making the snake panic & spaz out, when the snake has been using this for some time.
Giving an obviously-false reason to change husbandry is not going to bring acceptance any better than insults. If we stick to giving good reasons for what we suggest, it might take a bit longer to post & in that time hopefully everyone can make sure their tone is actually helpful. At least that's MY excuse for long posts...

[Sonny1318]

That's not the post I was referring to (about bashing) & I PM'd you specifically about that post...

I also agree that any snake will feel more secure when they have only ONE enclosure to "call home"...I actually PM'd the OP about that a while back, so it wouldn't get lost in all the chaos. I was worried that she would stop responding or leave the forum after some rude things were posted under the guise of "meaning well" for the snake.

I'm not at all convinced that a pillow (aka "bed") inside a hide makes one bit of difference -beyond not allowing enough heat to rise from the substrate IF & when using UTH. If that hide was the "cool" side hide, I'm quite sure that the snake is completely used to the scent & feel of such a "bed" & that's also not an issue. The biggest problem with using any sort of pillow or pet bed like that in a snake enclosure is that it will trap germs & be very difficult to wash & sanitize effectively, becoming a potential health risk.

I can recall posts from other keepers whose snakes seem to enjoy (or had no choice about) using a towel or blanket as substrate. The other issue with using any sort of fabric in a snake cage comes when snakes are fed: their teeth easily catch on fabric nearby when swallowing their prey, & if the fabric item is swallowed, it's not digestible & becomes a life-threatening medical emergency (& a very pricey surgery, I might add). That risk could be minimized if the object was removed at feeding time, but for such easily distressed snakes as ball pythons, that very interruption would likely make them refuse dinner. (For other snakes that aren't so shy, you'll get bit by a hungry snake when you reach in for it, LOL!)

I think it helps to explain WHY we suggest the changes that we do- who enjoys being harshly criticized & told that "everything they're doing is wrong"? In the case of the pet bed, as I recall someone suggested that the fuzzy texture was probably making the snake panic & spaz out, when the snake has been using this for some time.
Giving an obviously-false reason to change husbandry is not going to bring acceptance any better than insults. If we stick to giving good reasons for what we suggest, it might take a bit longer to post & in that time hopefully everyone can make sure their tone is actually helpful. At least that's MY excuse for long posts...

Well a little bit of enlightenment, in my own personal experience using tanks with paper towels. I have had quite a few snakes that weren’t crazy for the feel of moss being added to their hides/tanks. Just FYI. I too personally think some people sometimes are beyond help and have already decided, but to be so bold about the snake not liking the texture of an object? I seen snakes of all kinds react from everything from different substrate to hair. Just my two cents on a train already off the tracks. Peace ✌️