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  1. #21
    Registered User Danger noodles's Avatar
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    Iím going to say something that is just my opinion. But that substrate carpet thing I donít like. Iíd get rid of it and replace it with a better substrate and put the bird up
    Iím just a bill sitting on top of capital hill.

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  3. #22
    Registered User Bogertophis's Avatar
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    And I agree with above posts...ie. I would not rule out that he's now (suddenly?) more aware of the bird & what you're seeing is his fear of the bird.

    Snakes are so subtle & limited in their "expressions" that you have to remain vigilant, & play detective to rule things out. The more you know before you go to the
    vet, the better...& hopefully, you won't need the vet. But if it comes down to something likely medical (other things ruled out), then by all means see the vet. And
    again, ask if anything carried by your bird could possibly infect your snake...even if this time it's something else, it's something I'd still want to know for future health.

    As far as his "hide-flipping", that too could just be Crowley trying to burrow deeper to get away from the bird, but the hide flips (because
    it's light-weight) when he tries, & when it comes down on him, he panics & flips his tail against it, making it seem "neuro" when it really
    isn't. While you wouldn't want to just lay something heavy on top (as it could hurt him when it slips off), I'd try to come up with some-
    thing heavier that he can really burrow into & that's also safe for him. Doesn't have to be something made for snakes, as long as it's safe
    ...think "outside the box".
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 10-15-2019 at 05:49 PM.
    Many friends in low places...

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  5. #23
    Registered User Valyndris's Avatar
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    Re: Ball python spazzing out during the day

    Quote Originally Posted by Danger noodles View Post
    Iím going to say something that is just my opinion. But that substrate carpet thing I donít like. Iíd get rid of it and replace it with a better substrate and put the bird up
    I know the carpet is an unpopular choice and isn't recommended but that's what I learned to use and it's what Crowley has been used to all his life. I have a good system going where he can still get the humidity and heat he needs with just the carpet. I will move the snake into his room if that persists tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    And I agree with above posts...ie. I would not rule out that he's now (suddenly?) more aware of the bird & what you're seeing is his fear of the bird.

    Snakes are so subtle & limited in their "expressions" that you have to remain vigilant, & play detective to rule things out. The more you know before you go to the
    vet, the better...& hopefully, you won't need the vet. But if it comes down to something likely medical (other things ruled out), then by all means see the vet. And
    again, ask if anything carried by your bird could possibly infect your snake...even if this time it's something else, it's something I'd still want to know for future health.
    I respect and thank everyone for their opinion, I will definitely move Crowley into his room if he keeps spazzing tomorrow. I can easily make room in there and Crowley probably wouldn't mind and then the parrot can have more space. I will definitely ask the vet about the bird possibly carrying and infecting Crowley.

    One question about him possibly being scared of the parrot, why would he spaz in his room afterwards? Just lingering fear I guess?

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  7. #24
    Registered User Bogertophis's Avatar
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    Could be lingering fear...who knows??? It's just one possibility, & trying keeping him in "his own room" may give you a better answer than we can.

    Did you say he hasn't been eating now too? Since when was his last meal taken? (probably means nothing...winter's coming & he's a BP...it's what they do, but still?)
    Many friends in low places...

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  9. #25
    BPnet Veteran Craiga 01453's Avatar
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    I'm just gonna throw this out there...

    OP, you clearly care very deeply for your snake, and I appreciate and respect that.

    However, your methods are extremely unconventional and your experience is limited to a few years with one animal.

    Maybe it's time to try keeping him in the more "standard" way that's advised by experienced keepers.

    Snakes are not social animals. And I don't mean this as an insult, but you anthropomorphise with the best of them. You love your snake, that's obvious. But I think you often forget the most important thing...he's a snake.

    Snakes don't look forward to time outside the enclosure the way you feel Crowley does. They aren't animals that enjoy roaming and cruising all day...that's why BPs aren't photographed and observed just cruising around in nature. They are secretive, solitary and nocturnal.
    Your routine of having him out for hours all day is not allowing him to just...be a snake.

    And the bird, I'm sorry but that can't possibly be helping the situation. Snakes and other pets don't mix, period. Especially when one is a perfect predator to the other.

    So what I'm getting at is, there's a reason us experienced keepers keep our animals the way we do and advise others to do so. It works.

    We have years of experience and thousands of animals to have learned from.
    And unfortunately, your inexperience shows in how often you anthropomorphize. Snakes are very good at hiding stress and illness. So you may have mistaken signs of stress for signs of affection. You may simply not know what you're looking for. And that's ok because you only have one animal, so what you see may appear "normal", while we may have recognized it as stress.

    Sometimes all they need is to be left alone...to be a snake. Even you constantly hovering over the enclosure with a camera and fixing his hide and moving him into his hide...all equal stress.

    I'm just being honest here...it may be time to realize that snakes are not social animals and will not thrive when being treated as one. You clearly want more interaction with your pet than your pet is equipped to provide. It might be time to give Crowley a break and let him be a snake.
    ...life is beautiful...

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  11. #26
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    Wait a min... I need to think about this one...
    Last edited by Cheesenugget; 10-15-2019 at 06:26 PM.

  12. #27
    Registered User punkrawkah's Avatar
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    Re: Ball python spazzing out during the day

    I've had snakes that have a huge issue with the carpet your using in its enclosure. Also, the bird... I know you say its been there for some time but your snake could be stressed over it and it just cant take it anymore. Its probably a really good sweet snake when your handling it and may not show signs of being stressed but it really is. For the sake of discussion just try moving it out of the room. yes, it does look like its having seizure. Those can be caused from prolonged stress especially if they just started happening with in the last couple months. Did i see a snake bed under the hide as well. I've never seen that either maybe take that out as well.

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  14. #28
    in evinco persecutus dr del's Avatar
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    Re: Ball python spazzing out during the day

    Take out whatever that brown thing inside his hide is and don't put it back in. If that doesn't help get one of those smaller cave hides you have in the warm end and take the plastic hide out. In both videos he is moving about perfectly until he goes into that hide.
    Derek

    7 adult Royals (2.5), 1.0 COS Pastel, 1.0 Enchi, 1.1 Lesser platty Royal python, 1.1 Black pastel Royal python, 0.1 Blue eyed leucistic ( Super lesser), 0.1 Piebald Royal python, 1.0 Sinaloan milk snake 1.0 crested gecko and 1 bad case of ETS. no wife, no surprise.

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  16. #29
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    Re: Ball python spazzing out during the day

    Quote Originally Posted by dr del View Post
    Take out whatever that brown thing inside his hide is and don't put it back in. If that doesn't help get one of those smaller cave hides you have in the warm end and take the plastic hide out. In both videos he is moving about perfectly until he goes into that hide.
    The above. I had to watch the vid many times slow to figure what the heck it was. It looks like a dog bed for a chihuahua. Crowley goes into the dark an something furry bigger then him is in there, fight or flight. An the bird, cover that end of the cage at the minimum. The carpet gives off gas stop using it. Paper towels work fine.

    You keep stating his room. Do you use two cages for him? If so please stop, as soon as Crowley gets settled in it's change 1,001. Again, the bird is not helping.

    Now, what does Crowley weigh an any other snakes in the house? How cold is it in Canada now?
    Last edited by 303_enfield; 10-15-2019 at 08:44 PM.

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  18. #30
    Registered User Valyndris's Avatar
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    Re: Ball python spazzing out during the day

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    Could be lingering fear...who knows??? It's just one possibility, & trying keeping him in "his own room" may give you a better answer than we can.

    Did you say he hasn't been eating now too? Since when was his last meal taken? (probably means nothing...winter's coming & he's a BP...it's what they do, but still?)
    He hasn't eaten since July 17th, I think this was due to me getting an AC unit and it got cold the one day so I assumed he started his winter fast early. He's been in his room since about 2:30pm, went in his hide and slept. I was checking often and when I checked on him at 5pm he had spazzed that hide around (not the plastic one with the bed) It's a brown one with no bed in it. I had to go do groceries and I'm now back and his hide is in the middle of his enclosure instead of the side and his head and tail are sticking out by like 6 inches each. He seems to be resting like that at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Craiga 01453 View Post
    I'm just gonna throw this out there...

    OP, you clearly care very deeply for your snake, and I appreciate and respect that.

    However, your methods are extremely unconventional and your experience is limited to a few years with one animal.

    Maybe it's time to try keeping him in the more "standard" way that's advised by experienced keepers.

    Snakes are not social animals. And I don't mean this as an insult, but you anthropomorphise with the best of them. You love your snake, that's obvious. But I think you often forget the most important thing...he's a snake.

    Snakes don't look forward to time outside the enclosure the way you feel Crowley does. They aren't animals that enjoy roaming and cruising all day...that's why BPs aren't photographed and observed just cruising around in nature. They are secretive, solitary and nocturnal.
    Your routine of having him out for hours all day is not allowing him to just...be a snake.

    And the bird, I'm sorry but that can't possibly be helping the situation. Snakes and other pets don't mix, period. Especially when one is a perfect predator to the other.

    So what I'm getting at is, there's a reason us experienced keepers keep our animals the way we do and advise others to do so. It works.

    We have years of experience and thousands of animals to have learned from.
    And unfortunately, your inexperience shows in how often you anthropomorphize. Snakes are very good at hiding stress and illness. So you may have mistaken signs of stress for signs of affection. You may simply not know what you're looking for. And that's ok because you only have one animal, so what you see may appear "normal", while we may have recognized it as stress.

    Sometimes all they need is to be left alone...to be a snake. Even you constantly hovering over the enclosure with a camera and fixing his hide and moving him into his hide...all equal stress.

    I'm just being honest here...it may be time to realize that snakes are not social animals and will not thrive when being treated as one. You clearly want more interaction with your pet than your pet is equipped to provide. It might be time to give Crowley a break and let him be a snake.
    It may be my inexperience but I only mostly just take Crowley out when he wants to, I even let him come out himself and put him in his room where he has places to hide and places to explore, he explores then hides, once he has some time in his hide I bring him to the couch to watch a show, most of the time when I put him back he is riding the glass of the enclosure like he wants back out whereas he's nice and calm in his room or on the couch with me. The carpet I know isn't the best method but it's what I've always used and it's worked till this occurrence today.

    I've tried leaving him alone today and when I saw him struggle of course I tried to help, the camera was to show what he was doing to help diagnose what's happening with him, I tried not to hover too much. As for the bird, I wasn't expecting to get him for many years but my mother could no longer care for him and I took him in. Having Crowley and the parrot together was something I wasn't sure was going to work but I wanted to try it before I just shoved Crowley in a room. Like I've mentioned I will move Crowley to his room is he continues the spazzing tomorrow or if it was just a today thing.

    I appreciate hearing your opinion about this as I do feel like a mommy to my snake and I could be anthropomorphizing it without realizing because of the love I have for him. I just have never seen signs of stress in my experience, it always seemed like Crowley was happy with how I was taking care of him and he eats regularly when he isn't doing his winter fast.

    As for the other recent replies, the brown thing in the hide is a bed, he won't go in the hide without the bed as the entrance is too big and he doesn't like it. I can try switching to the brown hide I have, to see if that helps but he has spazzed in both of them. For tomorrow I have a plexi glass in front of Crowley's enclosure that I will block his vision from the bird with some towels on it.

    So my plans are, put him back in his enclosure with everything the same except for the hidden vision to the bird tonight. If he spazzes I will move him as soon as possible to his room. If the spazzing continues, I can switch hides around, if that doesn't work I will go to the vet on the weekend as my parents are going that way anyway so I'd get a ride from them (I don't trust my vehicle to make it that far, it's near the end of its life).

    Quote Originally Posted by 303_enfield View Post
    The above. I had to watch the vid many times slow to figure what the heck it was. It looks like a dog bed for a chihuahua. Crowley goes into the dark an something furry bigger then him is in there, fight or flight. An the bird, cover that end of the cage at the minimum. The carpet gives off gas stop using it. Paper towels work fine.

    You keep stating his room. Do you use two cages for him? If so please stop, as soon as Crowley gets settled in it's change 1,001. Again, the bird is not helping.

    Now, what does Crowley weigh an any other snakes in the house? How cold is it in Canada now?
    He has 2 enclosures, his main one and one in his room. He always sleeps in the main one and rests in the one in the room after he does his roam around. I got him to sleep in the one in his room today as he was spazzing in the main one. Crowley is 6 years old, he's 4'4" long and weighs 4.6 lbs (2087 grams). It gets to 40-60 degrees outside during the day and usually drops to around 20 at night. The house always stays at about 76 degrees. There are no other snakes or reptiles in the house, the only other pet is the parrot.

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