Questions about Hog Island Boas

[Luvyna]

I recently went to a reptile show and was introduced to a juvenile Hog Island boa that I really liked. I didn't buy the boa because now is not a good time for me to take on another snake, but I can't stop thinking about her and I think I may want to get a Hog Island boa in the future. I have been doing research but I've found it much harder to find information about them compared to BPs. I was wondering if any Hog Island boa keepers out there could be me some insights?

1. Do the males really stay at around 4 feet in length? I have read that some Hog Islands are actually crossed with BCIs and can reach BCI sizes. Are there any ways to ensure that I am getting a pure Hog Island boa if I decide to buy one?

2. How is the temperament of Hog Island boas compared to BPs? I am still new at snake keeping and I was wondering if this is an appropriate snake for a new snake keeper who has only kept a BP so far. I've heard boas can have more of an attitude than typical beginner snakes like corns and BPs. Also interested in knowing what their activity levels are like in enclosures, how well they tolerate handling, and how they behave when outside of their enclosures.

3. What are some reputable Hog Island Boa breeders in North America?

4. Please share any photos or videos you have of your Hog Island boas!

[WrongPython]

First off: good on you for holding off on the purchase and doing some research first! I think this will make you (and your future snake) happier in the long run.

I'll caveat the rest of this with the fact that I don't actually own a Hog Island, but another variety of dwarf boa (a Sonoran). I did do a fair bit of research into them, though, and from what I understand:

1. I believe it's possible for mature males to stay around ~4 feet or so in length, but there's a significant chance they may grow a bit larger. The average quoted breeding size for female Hog Island boas is around 5-6 feet; male boas who aren't bred can grow to be around the same size as females, though they won't be quite as girthy. If you'd like to keep your boa on the smaller side, your best bet would be to slow grow them and avoid overfeeding. There's a thread from about a month ago named "BCI growth" that dives into this in more detail.

You're correct in that some "Hog Island" boas are actually Hog Island/mainland BI crosses. This may account for some reports of "monster" 7 foot Hog Island boas, though it sounds as though some pure Hog Island boas simply do have that size potential. The best way to ensure that you're getting a pure Hog Island boa is to find a reputable breeder.

2. While I'm not familiar with Hog Island boas' temperament specifically, boas in general aren't as docile as BPs and corn snakes. They have a stronger food response and are a bit more active and inquisitive than your average BP. They aren't as active as corn snakes, though, and some are content to "hang out" with you when out of their enclosure. I wouldn't say boas have an "attitude" - many boas are relatively laid-back and agreeable - but some dwarf varieties can take a bit longer to get out of that "nippy baby" phase. Overall temperament and toleration of handling ultimately comes down to the individual. If you can, I'd encourage you to see and inspect your potential boa in person to get a better idea of their individual temperament.

3. Two reputable Hog Island breeders I know of in North America (US specifically) are Vin Russo of Cutting Edge Herp and Tommy Carpenter of TC Reptile. Vin almost always has a long waiting list for his Hog Island boas, though. Good luck!

[Luvyna]

Thank you for the info!

I definitely am hoping for a dwarf boa that will stay on the smaller side. I think 5 ft might be the max I'd feel comfortable handling and housing at this stage, really surprised to hear that some males can get as big as females I'm going to look into Sonoran boas too, I really like boas but I just don't think I could house or handle a snake that gets over 6ft (even 5 feet is kind of pushing it). Really appreciate the advice on how to feed, I've looked up the thread you mentioned and it had lots of good info.

I handled two baby Hog Island boas and a yearling mainland BCI at the reptile show and all of them seemed docile and friendly although I've found plenty of sources and YouTube videos showing that boas (especially the young ones) definitely can be nippy or have grumpy days. Meeting the snake in person before buying to gauge temperament is a good idea and something I did even for my BP since for me it is important to have a pet snake that is handleable and friendly enough that I can introduce it to friends and family who aren't familiar with or comfortable around snakes.

Thank you for the breeder recommendations as well! Hog Islands seem to be pretty hard to find so it's really helpful to know.

[CloudtheBoa]

1. Average adult size seems to be 5'-6', with many females reaching 7', and I've even heard of 8' WC individuals. This is 100% pure, no Colombian blood. Hog Islands will generally get the same size as any "Colombian" boa. They stay small on their island simply due to prey availability, they don't stay small genetically.

Seasonal feeding and buying from a project selectively bred for smaller size will increase chances they'll stay small (or smaller longer in the case of the feeding), but I've seen quite a few owners get boas from, say, Vin Russo, and they still reach/exceed 6' with normal feeding. Hog Islands are BI (no longer BCI), they're just a specific locality of that species. There is a very small population of pure animals in captivity because exportation was made illegal not long after the first imports were made. Most Hogs will be mixed with other localities, and pure Hogs seem to sometimes have a few issues that I assume is from the small pool of pure genetics available (such as tiny eyes, over/underbites, or what I like to call "stone scales" because their scales have a weird pebbly look to them).

2. If Hogs are anything like my boas, they are more reactive than bps. Not always necessarily more defensive, but they're more aware and will react more than bps have in my experience. In their enclosure, they can be lazy during the day except on feeding days, and in general are a lot less active than my one ball python. lol They will grab you with a strong grip, and handle much different than a bp. Babies do tend to be quick to bite, but many are also very docile, and most will outgrow bitiness/hissiness with size and age. Their feeding response is definitely much higher, so you will want to pay more attention to their behavior getting them out to avoid feeding bites. Most of the time, my boas are just fine and don't need a hook, but I have a couple that can be more food responsive at times than the others. That said, they're not hard to work with, and I've found my boas more rewarding than my bp.

3. The only one I know is Vin Russo, he is a specifically locality breeder, and keeps all his lines pure. But you see Hogs jump up elsewhere every once in awhile. There will likely be a long waiting list, though.

Here's my biggest boas, if it gives you an idea of what a bigger boa looks like. I'm only 5'2", so I'm small, but I can handle them quite easily. 4'x2'x2' works up to 6', but I'd upgrade to a 5'x2'x2' or 6'x2'x2' for a boa 6'+. They're not quite as big as you'd think, but their enclosures can take up some space for sure.

Female, 7' and 14.5 lbs.



Male, 6.5' and just over 10 lbs.

[Jus1More]

Hello friends! I thought I would chime in on this as I have a female hypo hog island boa. She is about 2 yrs and 2 month old and is my absolute favorite snake. She is nothing like my female ball python, as she is more curious when she is out being handled but after about 10 minutes she calms right down and is content on chilling out by my side. She has a great food response and only misses a meal if she is going into shed. I believe I read someone's response that hog island boa's were not docile, or maybe they meant to say that boa's in general are not docile and I will have to disagree (at least with my boa). My girl is very docile, almost like a puppy...LOL! She just has such a sweet nature to her and loves to be handled. Ha ha, but now as I say that I do remember my experience with a Sonoran het leopard boa that I got a few years ago... Now she was hard to handle, always hissing and striking. I named her "Chain-saw Mary" and ended up giving her to a friend who absolutely loved her big sassy attitude.

Ok, now back to hog island boa's... I agree there is not my literature on them, but if you keep digging like I dig you will find information on them. I liked this type of boa because they stayed on the smaller size and their girth size stayed on the small-ish size as well. My boa's mother was a true hog island boa and her father was a hypo central american boa. Her mother is 5.5 ft and her father is 4 ft. Both of her parents were absolutely beautiful and once I saw them and both of their size, I knew I wanted one. As far as a reputable breeder, unfortunately I do not know of any in America, as I am in Toronto, Ontario Canada. But if you were ever to want to venture out this way I can give you the name of the breeder I got my girl from...LOL!

Attached are some pictures of my girl. I can never get her to stretch out, so all of my pics are of her wrapping around my arm... Her name is Zara, and she is the queen of the casa!!


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[RedRabbit]

Luvyna! When I saw it was you asking this question, I had to hold back and remind myself not to be a reckless enabler, haha. My BPs are still my cuddlebugs, but my boas have been rockstars so far, so I can't help but want to spread the fun. However, as you know, my boas are relatively new additions to my household as well, so what I can mainly offer is my experience (so far) as someone who also started with only BPs as a frame of reference.

1. I spoke with a few different boa breeders, online and at shows, and most state that the males of the island locality and Central American locality boas will max out around 4-5 feet. However, I think CloudtheBoa makes a good point that this is largely dependent on individual variation, selective line breeding, and a conservative feeding schedule that backs off during the winter months. Also keep in mind that 1) with the aforementioned appropriate feeding schedule, boas will grow much slower than BPs, so you'll have ample time to become comfortable with your boa's behaviors/handling as it gradually increases in size; and 2) boas have a different body type compared to BPs, so even a 6ft length may not be as daunting as it sounds. A 6ft BP would be ... QUITE a hefty chonk. A 6ft boa is a very muscular rope.

2. I think temperament is more of an individual variable too, rather than being particularly linked to locality. For example, one breeder told me Blood boas tend to be on the feistier side, while another breeder said his Bloods were the most laid-back out of the projects he worked with. Genesis, my own Hypo Blood, is super chill. My IMG Motley, Q, is a bit more vocal, and some have said IMGs have that attitude reputation too, but Q is also still very young, and even so has calmed down considerably with regular handling just within the past month. The handling itself is very fun. It's fascinating to feel the shift and grip of a boa's musculature, and mine tend to want to reposition and look around more than my BPs do, but not to the extent of actively trying to noodle out of your grasp like a corn snake might. As for activity INSIDE their enclosures ... give me a little time, and I might be able to procure some amusing (albeit poorly lit) picture examples, haha.

3. Vin Russo is also the only breeder I know of who for sure works with Hog Island and other pure locality boas. If you want a better chance of obtaining a boa from him, I'd recommend closely following his Instagram and/or his Facebook page (both under the name CuttingEdgeHerp). Every now and then, he'll post a few available snakes, and you can contact him to inquire - you just have to move fast, since they'll likely sell quickly. That's how I got Genesis, who was posted on Vin's Instagram along with two of his siblings who were also 2018 holdbacks. All three sold within the day of posting.

4. Neither Gen nor Q are Hog Island boas, and I'll try not to spam since I already posted the bulk of their recent photos in their respective progression threads ... but a little extra encouragement couldn't hurt, right?

[Luvyna]

@CloudtheBoa: Thank you so much for the size comparison images, that is super helpful! I have to admit a 7 foot snake still looks pretty intimidating to me. Maybe there is a part of me that still hasn't fully let go of a wariness toward large snakes. I have never handled a snake that size and in my head I think I just have this fear that the snake would be strong enough to hold onto me with enough force that I might not be able to get it off, or at least not without hurting it.

The male boa does look more manageable than the female since it's less girthy, though. Also I love how they both seem perfectly chill about being lifted into the air like that and they look comfortable and curious. Both beautiful snakes, thank you for sharing

Thanks for the info about the feeding as well, I hadn't considered that the Hog Island size could be attributed to the availability of prey on the Hog Islands. That makes a lot of sense.

@Jus1More: Thank you for the lovely photos and info about your Hog Island girl! Her orange colouring is really nice and I love that photo of her with her head poking out of blankets, super cute. I'm happy to hear that she is a great example of a calm and sweet boa, I hope I can get one as gentle as her some day. Also, please do share the Canadian breeder she came from, I'm super interested! I am located in Canada, actually, but I asked for American breeders as well as I might move to the U.S. in the future.

@RedRabbit: I learned about Hog Island boas from you after you suggested them in my Noodle thread, so I've been keeping an eye out for them ever since! So thank you for that It will probably be some time before I buy another snake (if I ever do) but I'm thinking that if I get another it will most likely be a dwarf boa or a pied ball python.

Very good point about there being a lot of individual variation in the personalities of snakes. I think I would definitely want to meet any boa I'm considering in person before deciding to buy. Thank you for the advice about following Vin Russo's social media as well!

I just adore Genesis and Q, they are SO beautiful and I can't get over how amazing the iridescence on their scales is! I love your snake photos and would love to see some shots of your boas active in their enclosures.

[Toad37]

Vin Russo just had a pair of them for sale last weekend at Tinley Park

[CloudtheBoa]

@CloudtheBoa: Thank you so much for the size comparison images, that is super helpful! I have to admit a 7 foot snake still looks pretty intimidating to me. Maybe there is a part of me that still hasn't fully let go of a wariness toward large snakes. I have never handled a snake that size and in my head I think I just have this fear that the snake would be strong enough to hold onto me with enough force that I might not be able to get it off, or at least not without hurting it.

The male boa does look more manageable than the female since it's less girthy, though. Also I love how they both seem perfectly chill about being lifted into the air like that and they look comfortable and curious. Both beautiful snakes, thank you for sharing

Thanks for the info about the feeding as well, I hadn't considered that the Hog Island size could be attributed to the availability of prey on the Hog Islands. That makes a lot of sense.

Nah, they’re very manageable at this size. If you’re uncomfortable, it’s not unreasonable to have another person around then. Snakes, even large snakes, can be easy to get off so long as you have the hands and do it properly.

They are heavy if you aren’t used to it, though. If you get a baby you’ll grow with it, and get used to its weight as it grows slowly. I power fed the male on accident when he was young, so he reached 6’ by 3 years old, but normally you wouldn’t see that for a good 4-6+ years. The female is 11 years old, and was slow grown by her breeder. So even if they get bigger than you currently want, you have time.

The male is quite used to being handled, but the female has taken a lot of work to get her to the point I was comfortable measuring her, and she was comfortable enough to not mind using me as a tree. Haha When I first got her, she was intent on staying off of me and did not like me to touch her at all. Handling boas is definitely an experience, and a rewarding one.

Dwarves, such as Tarahumara, Crawl Cay, etc. should stay small no matter how you feed. There are some genetic lines that get bigger (even when pure), which I see from time to time mostly in Nics. Most Nics are also small, but they’re more likely to get big and are as commonly bred into “Colombians” as Hogs tend to be. But pures aren’t hard to find.


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[WrongPython]

So many lovely boas on this thread! And some solid advice, to boot.

I'm going to look into Sonoran boas too, I really like boas but I just don't think I could house or handle a snake that gets over 6ft (even 5 feet is kind of pushing it).

Yes... join us in the Sonoran boa club. Once you join, you may never want to leave!



In all seriousness, though, I would highly recommend looking into male Sonorans if you'd like to go that route and 5 feet is the most you feel comfortable with. Female Sonorans (like my girl) average between 5-6 feet, with breeding males averaging around 4 feet. So, a Sonoran of any gender may end up being a bit more snake than you're looking for right now. As the others have said, though, you can more or less grow with your boa and perhaps become more comfortable with a snake that large over time. I certainly would have been more hesitant about getting even a 5 foot boa if they followed the same growth pattern as, say, a retic. Having that ability to grow with your snake is just another reason why boas are so awesome.

I'd definately recommend meeting a potential Sonoran in person before purchasing it. I've heard some say that Sonorans are a bit feistier than other localities. My girl is pretty much the antithesis of that, though, and is an angel whenever she's out, even for the odd non-snakey friend who comes over and wants to meet/hold her.

If size is still an issue, I would highly recommend looking into the Tarahumara and Crawl Cay boas Cloud mentioned. They're pretty much the smallest of the small as far as boas go, withTarahumaras topping out around 4 feet. I started a "locality boas for beginners" thread a few months ago that may be of some help. It should be floating around here somewhere!

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