Feeding Technique and Regularity Questions

[Tihsho]

Been working on getting some new arrivals to the collection up and eating and like most am running into issues with feeding. I've limited myself to frozen/thawed prey items due to local availability as well as the misses not being pro live feeder options. As most ball's have their own personalities I've come to find that not all wish to have the prey item offered in the same way. My general feeding days are Friday and either Saturday or Sunday at around 11PM. I generally attempt to feed everyone on Friday and save one of the other two days for the ones who held off feeding on the first day. I have a few males that will only strike at food that is presented head first with forceps holding the prey item by the neck. Others strike at food that is held by its tail, and then I have some that I have to pretend to be the rat and have it running around the bin before they perk up to strike. Anyone have any other techniques that work that I should try for picky eaters? Currently I have one sub adult female (in the higher 900 grams) that has a sassy personality that likes to huff and puff and bluff all of her strikes. She slaps the prey items with her face and stands her ground, but never latches.

As for regularity, I've always been one to offer a fair sized prey item once a week and leave it at that. Now I'm past having just a couple ball's as pets and am looking to venture into breeding and want to be sure I keep my adult girls at healthy weights, and/or boost their weights up so they are ready for breeding. Talking to a few breeders I've heard that feeding multiple (3-5 depending on the females size) prey items isn't unusual to get a girl up to weight and/or to keep her at a breeding weight prior to spawning. I've never had a ball that would eat more than one prey item per sitting, but I have had a few who go on the hunt less than 24 hours after taking one meal and will pound another meal as soon as it's offered. My questions are as follows:

1) Is there any drawbacks to feeding multiple meals per week to animals that are not showing signs of obesity?
2) Besides skin showing between scales, what are obvious signs that a snake has too much weight for its size?
3) How often is too often? Offer meals with day gaps in between? Or feed until the snakes interest is met as long as there are no signs of obesity?

Please keep in mind that these animals are no longer 100% pets and I want to make sure they are getting the nutrition they need to keep up with being able to spawn as well as produce all while being healthy.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

1) Is there any drawbacks to feeding multiple meals per week to animals that are not showing signs of obesity?
2) Besides skin showing between scales, what are obvious signs that a snake has too much weight for its size?
3) How often is too often? Offer meals with day gaps in between? Or feed until the snakes interest is met as long as there are no signs of obesity?

Because a snake does not show sign of obesity does not mean it should be fed as much as you feel like in captivity, ball pythons and other snakes in general are grossly over fed which leads from anything from fast to fatty liver issue, slugging out in breeder female etc.

It's not a race you want them to grow nice and slow and most importantly healthy.

Digestion takes a huge toll on a snake so once a week is more than enough at 900 grams you have to take into account metabolism, same thing they do not need huge preys either.

Here is what I would recommend you to follow if you want a healthy animal that feeds with consistancy https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ing-Guidelines

[Tihsho]

So there are no physical tell tale signs of obesity besides the one I described above?

I whole heartedly agree that there are a ton of snakes that are grossly overfed to the point of getting health concerns, but what I'm looking for is a fine line between the two. Not for the purpose to ride it, but just for a solid understanding so that I can justify the logic.

The information in the link you provided is interesting, but one thing I'd like to know more about is why meals are the same for males and females at the same gram weight. Also, the regularity of feeding is the same on the last two gram weights. As the breeder column applies to most of my snakes, I would beg to differ that a 500 gram male should be fed as often as a 3500 gram female. Mind you that the prey items are bigger (small rat vs. medium rat), but I would think that a female that is of the size and age to reproduce would be putting on weight from more often meals in order to produce healthy eggs, as well as to have a healthy post lay weight and being able to fast during maternal incubation. Again, something there doesn't make sense to me and that's what I'm just trying to understand more rather than to have a question on why feeding is what it is without understanding it. Does that make sense?

In the case of hatchlings right before sub adults. Logically are the hatchlings not programmed to "eat to grow as to not get eaten" just out of evolution?

I do understand that our husbandry conditions do not provide ample space for the snakes to exercise even though this species isn't extremely active normally. That compounded with fatty meals being provided without the snake putting in much, if any, hunting effort is like raising a child on delivery pizza while they physically reside on a sofa only moving to get comfortable.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

I would beg to differ that a 500 gram male should be fed as often as a 3500 gram female.

So you bed to differ based on your experience? I feed everything once a week from hatchlings to 4000 grams females and the 4000 grams females are fed nothing larger than 175 grams rats weekly, that's based on my experience as a owner and breeder and my understanding of snake metabolism.

And it all comes back down to what I mention above ultimately I prefer my snake to be healthy and feeding with consistency throughout the year.

[Tihsho]

Mine isn't based on experience, but more so biologically something doesn't seem right. I'm not saying it won't work, I just can't wrap my head around it is all. I'm looking at it from a nutrient export perspective, females and males are digesting differently as their nutrient export system has one major difference, producing eggs. I've seen clutches from a friend's larger females weigh out to 1500-2200 grams from females ranging from 3400-4200 grams prior to ovulation. Since females go off of food during the breeding season (generally) that mass of eggs has to gain nutrients from somewhere, which means it's pulling from the females built nutrient storage from prior meals. So looking at this from the low end of the weights, if a 3400 gram female lays a 1500 gram clutch, post laying she can weigh no more than 1900 grams. If you factor in her system breaking down the stored nutrients during the fast as well as the energy put into developing and laying the eggs I would strongly think the female would be below the 1900 gram max post lay. I'm also somewhat skewing this in my head thinking of 'wild' balls being opportunistic and trying to eat while they have food available with their biological clocks sort of running the show, as instinctually animals eat to grow and then live to breed.

By no means am I looking at arguing, I'm just trying to understand is all. Something just doesn't seem right to me and I'm trying to find that bit of information that makes it click and have that "ahhh" moment of understanding.