A question for Breeders

[Joykoins]

What do you guys think about the practice of "renting" male snakes?
Once the male has served his purpose, thats just one more bin you have to keep, one more mouth to feed, one more potential animal to get sick, etc. Can you really say you made a profit off of that clutch if you have to continue spending money taking care of the males you only bought for their sperm?

[Danger noodles]

I think that we here care about the animal way more than it just being a sperm donor.

If u are that worried about money and not the animal u have already failed.

[Bogertophis]

There are problems with renting (or loaning) for breeding purpose: for one thing, you never know what diseases you might be accidentally introducing to your collection
this way...any breeder worth buying from is serious about quarantining their animals, so breeding from males from elsewhere is a huge risk & uncertainty. You have to
figure that anyone who isn't worried about doing this with their animals (from either side) is probably NOT someone you should trust to deal with.

Not only that, but it's stressful for the snake being "temporarily re-homed"...BPs in particular are great at "going off-feed" so you won't know whether it's a "normal fast"
or an illness that started from the breeding loan. And if either one gets sick, there can be a lot of angry finger-pointing...

Finding that person with the right snake to pair with yours means you'd want someone you TRUST: not just how their snakes are cared for (& what they were exposed to
& not yet sick from) but also when it comes to how you'll divide the resulting clutch...all those details have to be worked out in advance...what if there is no success? etc.

I can remember posts on another forum documenting one member's experience with a breeding loan...with a "friend" whose husbandry was very sloppy & lacking (dirty
cages, no water half the time, etc)...it didn't go very well...certainly not what they envisioned at the start. You also have to worry about people who leave town with your
snake (or conversely, they worry about you). Like I said, how well you truly know someone becomes very important.

These are risks that few if any of us would take. Certainly not me...

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Breeding loan are often a huge headache, when done between strangers it's a nightmare and when done between friend it's often no better as the possible gain can jeopardize friendships.

Over the years I have seen friendships go down the drain because of breeding loans, either because of loss or splitting of clutches etc.

Honestly it's not worth the headache (quarantine, what if the animal dies, feeding cost, vet cost if the animal is sick, split etc), if you do a loan look at it from the standpoint of helping someone with no expectation of anything in return, if not. just save the money and buy the animal you need for your projects sell them when they no longer fit in your projects and you upgrade your collection (that applies to males and females).

[Joykoins]

I think that we here care about the animal way more than it just being a sperm donor.

If u are that worried about money and not the animal u have already failed.

I'm not concerned about money per say, but more about the consequences and impacts of buying an animal just for its genetic material.

If someone wants a (no idea if it's even real) Banana Clown, and already has half of the pair, theyll go out and buy the other half, then breed (let's assume clutch of 6), then pick the baby they want to keep. That process has now resulted in six unwanted snakes. What happens to them? Where do all these extra snakes go?

[Joykoins]

There are problems with renting (or loaning) for breeding purpose: for one thing, you never know what diseases you might be accidentally introducing to your collection
this way...any breeder worth buying from is serious about quarantining their animals, so breeding from males from elsewhere is a huge risk & uncertainty. You have to
figure that anyone who isn't worried about doing this with their animals (from either side) is probably NOT someone you should trust to deal with.

Not only that, but it's stressful for the snake being "temporarily re-homed"...BPs in particular are great at "going off-feed" so you won't know whether it's a "normal fast"
or an illness that started from the breeding loan. And if either one gets sick, there can be a lot of angry finger-pointing...

Finding that person with the right snake to pair with yours means you'd want someone you TRUST: not just how their snakes are cared for (& what they were exposed to
& not yet sick from) but also when it comes to how you'll divide the resulting clutch...all those details have to be worked out in advance...what if there is no success? etc.

I can remember posts on another forum documenting one member's experience with a breeding loan...with a "friend" whose husbandry was very sloppy & lacking (dirty
cages, no water half the time, etc)...it didn't go very well...certainly not what they envisioned at the start. You also have to worry about people who leave town with your
snake (or conversely, they worry about you). Like I said, how well you truly know someone becomes very important.

These are risks that few if any of us would take. Certainly not me...

Those are all definitely legit concerns. I suppose I was thinking of snake stud service in the same fashion as horse or dog, but given all the special conditions needed for BP breeding, it wasn't a fair comparison at all

[Lord Sorril]

Where do all these extra snakes go?

Re-homed/Sold--Including breeders that are no longer needed.
Morphmarket this morning: 14990 ball pythons in 14818 ads by 177 traits and subcategories

[Reposado]

You sell them when your project had moved on past what he can provide. Hopefully you've treated him well so you can sell him into a pet home if he's a single gene or something no Looney popular to breed.

[Bogertophis]

I'm not concerned about money per say, but more about the consequences and impacts of buying an animal just for its genetic material.

If someone wants a (no idea if it's even real) Banana Clown, and already has half of the pair, theyll go out and buy the other half, then breed (let's assume clutch of 6), then pick the baby they want to keep. That process has now resulted in six unwanted snakes. What happens to them? Where do all these extra snakes go?

IMHO, there's already more than enough BPs being produced...I'd urge you NOT to breed them in the first place, as the number of good homes is not infinite, & as we all
feel the financial effects of climate change, there will be even fewer. Not to be "Debby Downer" about this, but people love dogs, & yet shelters have to euthanize them
by the thousands...do you want the same for snakes? I don't.

If you want a fancy morph BP, it is FAR easier & FAR less expensive (in the long run) to just go to MorphMarket, an expo, or someone already established as a responsible
breeder and find exactly what you want without the need for all the collateral damage. And better yet, why not work with a rare species in the first place?

[Bogertophis]

And by the way, there's no guarantee either, that what you set off to produce will actually happen for you...so like I said, if you dream of owning a particular morph,
you're better off shopping than breeding for it. All those "extra" snakes need food, cages & care, & they can also get sick or injured, needing veterinary care. It's
all on you when you try to breed for them and I guarantee the cost will far exceed the price of buying that "pricey" solo snake you wanted in the first place.

Also remember when the "market" for something (snakes or other pets) is saturated, the prices fall and you end up practically (or actually) giving them away, plus
what's even worse, when they are devalued they often don't get good homes at all: if you hang around pet stores a while, you'll hear some shoppers who will only
want to buy that animal that's on sale & "cannot afford" the heater or other relevant items for proper care. When any kind of pets are given away, they are often
regarded as throw-away "toys" for children's (temporary) amusement...the same sort of people who "adopt" a dog just for while they're on vacation.

So to your questions " What happens to them? Where do all these extra snakes go?" just remember how many people are already breeding BPs- & do the math.