The Vaping Epidemic

[sur3fir3]

I want to jump back on here and say for the record, I am not in favor of a ban. I am not huge fan of government intervention or regulation because the government tends to overstep. There does however, still need to be an overseer because society has proven to be incapable of functioning well without it. I also was a smoker for 15 years. At my peak I was up to a pack and a half a day. So I am not coming from a place of inexperience or sanctimony. This is not a case of non-smoker vs smoker. To quit smoking was one of the hardest things I have ever done. It was hard in that I had to overcome an addition. For those here whom have never been addicted to anything, you can't possibly know. But at the same time, it was also simple. It was simple in that it was accomplished by simply never committing the act again. That is a simple concept. I have not had a cigarette since 1989. Everyday I don't have a cigarette, I am not a smoker. I also believe if I had a cigarette today I would be a smoker tomorrow. That is how strong of an addictive substance a cigarette and nicotine is. So where I take issue is with anything that puts nicotine or other addictive substances in a favorable light.

Now I would like to personally address Craig as he has been very passionate throughout this thread, and has been the focus of some undeserved comments. First of all I want to commend you on your sobriety. While I have never had that particular addiction I have had a lot of experience with family and friends that have, and have witnessed the absolute grip it can hold on people. So good on you there brother and keep fighting the good fight. I hope that someday you will find the same strength to overcome nicotine. Also, try hard not to give life to the negative comments. You're stronger than that. I am in favor of live and let live. We only get one crack at this so you might as well make the most of it. At the same time we, as a society, as adults, as a forum community, have a responsibility to try and do no harm. My issue with this thread, if I were to really put a point on it, is the strong defense of Vaping. And I know from having been a smoker, that an addict will defend their vice. I could always find a way to justify smoking when I smoked. I believe that time will most likely prove vaping to have negative impact on human health. And while I can understand that for some it is a more favorable form of nicotine delivery over cigarette smoking, that doesn't make it good. It is more the lesser of two evils. One might argue that Stalin was better than Hitler, but to say Stalin was good would be a gross inaccuracy.

I am the father of three children who are all grown now. When I was raising them, it was my job to teach them and mold their belief systems in a way that was beneficial to them becoming productive adults, even when it was contrary to my actions. For example, I didn't allow my 10 year old to watch an R rated movie, even if it were one of my favorite films. My first child was born about 11 months after I quit smoking and that wasn't a coincidence. It was a plan to not expose my children to it. So when I read this thread it makes me cringe a little. I know there are young people on this forum. What will be their take away? They are are here to soak up information about ball pythons. At the same time, this thread is available to them as well. Isn't it a bit irresponsible for anyone here to be championing a concept that may yet prove to be harmful? We have to be cautious about what we state and how it's perceived, especially if it could in anyway mislead someone to believe that an activity is "safe", as opposed to "not as bad as." I truly appreciate this forum and the exchange of information and ideas. I just want us all to be aware of the power we wield with our words. Words can uplift. Words can take down. Words can hurt. I used to tell my kids, words are like bullets. Once they leave your muzzle, you can't call them back and you can't control the collateral damage. So let's choose our words carefully and make sure we are aware of what is down range, before you unleash them.



There. "I've said my peace and counted to three"

Extremely well said, top to bottom.

I definitely don't intend to advocate for vaping. I know it can't possibly be a good habit. And I am sure it's not good for me. And I hadn't thought about an addict defending their addiction regarding vaping. It never seemed the same as the way I used to glorify my drinking, but I can clearly see your point.

To me, I'm just a firm believer that if I'm not putting anybody else in harm's way I should be able to make my own decisions. I feel the same way about seat belt laws. I'm a grown man, let me decide (for the record, I do wear my seatbelt, hahahaha) or motorcycle helmet laws. Although I think it's extremely foolish to ride without a helmet I believe that adults should be able to make their own choice.

I already babbled about the list of other things that "should" be banned if vaping is...and where do we draw the line...blah blah blah....and I know some of the comparisons are asinine, but I'm just trying to prove a point.
I am certainly not suggesting anarchy, I obviously believe government and law officials have their place. Society would be a complete and utter nightmare otherwise. But I do believe they're crossing a line with outright bans without factual evidence that legally bought vape juice is killing people this quickly.

I mean, if they were truly concerned about an epidemic they'd be banging down every door of every known drug dealer, not just waiting to stockpile enough evidence to bring down the main suppliers. They'd be making sure there are open beds when people try to get clean. I've literally seen cases where people were clean for r two days and tried to check in to a facility. But since they peed clean they weren't admitted despite the track marks up and down their arms. They were literally told to go use and come back. That's insanity. One shot could be their last, and government run facilities are literally telling people to go use.

I guess what I'm saying is that priorities are all messed up. And their balogna excuses that it's about our health and well-being is an outright lie.

In closing, RL I admire and appreciate every word you said. Thank you.

OK So I agree with both of these posts. I dont really have much to add because Criag hit the nail on the head with his post.

[sur3fir3]

I thought I would paste some photos of my new squonkers. I didnt do a new topic cause I didnt want to make another vaping thread on here. The first set of photos is the desire cut, and the last set are the vandy vape pulse x

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Bogertophis]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/08/healt...-bn/index.html

Breakthrough in CDC vaping illness investigation: Vitamin E acetate linked to THC may be to blame


By Jen Christensen, CNN
Updated 2:28 PM ET, Fri November 8, 2019




(CNN)Vitamin E acetate, an additive sometimes used in THC and other vaping products, may be to blame for a national outbreak of e-cigarette-related lung injuries that's linked to dozens of deaths, according to US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention officials.

Dr. Anne Schuchat, the principal deputy director of the CDC, said she would characterize it as a breakthrough in the agency's investigation, although more tests are necessary.


Vaping lung injury cases now top 2,000, CDC says


"These new findings are significant," Schuchat said during a press briefing on Friday. "We have a strong culprit."
There is still more work to do and the CDC said it is continuing to test for a wide range of chemicals.

"This does not rule out other possible ingredients," Schuchat said. "There may be more than one cause."
The CDC says its tests found vitamin E acetate in samples taken from 29 patients who were sick with vaping-related illness in 10 states. THC, or tetrahydrocannabinol, the primary psychoactive component of the cannabis plant, or its metabolites were detected in 23 of 28 patients. Nicotine metabolites were detected in 16 of 26 patient specimens.
During the press briefing, CDC's Dr. James Pirkle described vitamin E acetate as "enormously sticky" when it goes into the lungs, and it "does hang around." Pirkle said it wouldn't be unusual for THC to be absent from some of the samples because it leaves the lungs faster. He added finding THC in 82% of the samples from 28 patients was "noteworthy."
In September, New York health officials linked cases of severe lung illness to vitamin E acetate in cannabis-containing vaping products. At the time, investigators said it was "a key focus" of the state's investigation into the illnesses.
Until the investigation is complete, the CDC suggests people refrain from using all vaping products with THC, no matter where people buy them. The investigation has found that many of these products patients used were bought online or received through friends or family, rather than through vaping shops or at licensed THC dispensaries.
Vitamin E is used in several products, such as lotions and in supplements, but the CDC said there is a "big difference" in putting vitamin E on the skin or swallowing it in pill and in inhaling the oily vitamin.
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Dr. Jennifer Layden, the chief medical officer and state epidemiologist with the Illinois Department of Public Health, said in the press briefing that in her state, they found the majority of cases of the people who were sick used THC, and that their materials came from "informal sources." In Illinois, she said, they had not had any cases associated with the state's medical marijuana program.
So far, there have been 2,051 cases of vaping associated illnesses, reported in every state, except for Alaska, as of November 5. States have reported at least 40 deaths.

Clarification: This story and headline has been updated to reflect that vitamin E acetate, which is sometimes used a thickening agent in THC vaping products, has been linked to vaping-related lung injuries.

[Craiga 01453]

That's what I've been trying to tell people.

Legally bought, regulated nicotine vape juice is NOT the problem. Its illegally purchased THC cartridges that are making people sick amd killing people.

This whole ban is just plain stupid. It's government overstepping and taking away my right to choose.

If ANY of government's arguments or "reasons" were actually true I'd think differently.
Their first argument is public safety, yet I can still buy cigarettes. If public safety were REALLY their concern butts would be banned too.
Argument #2 - flavors are geared towards kids.... Yet I can buy Fruit Loop, Swedish Fish, Cotton Candy, Birthday Cake, etc...etc...etc...flavored vodka. That's not geared towards kids but the vape juice is???

It's hypocrisy at it's finest. It's wrong it's unfair and it's a perfect example of government going too far with their "power". Especially considering there are no facts to back up an outright ban. It's based on lies and speculation and exactly why I have no respect for the vast majority of politicians. Our government is no longer "for the people" but sadly for the few.

I'm as proud as anybody to be an American, but our government is a joke.

[tttaylorrr]

there are 2 separate conversations happening here: one about vaping, and one very deep discussion on the role our government should play regarding personal liberties and informed consent. lol.

-

the first confirmed vape death in the nation happened right here in the Chicago 'burbs. it was from a counterfeit THC cartridge. the media ran with "VAPING KILLS" instead of the truth: "UNREGULATED MARKETS KILL".

i thought it was common knowledge that counterfeit THC cartridges were to blame. this thread was a wild ride. everyone seems to have jumped on the ban-wagon (pun intended) which is just a bandaid on an ever-deepening wound: no regulation, no oversight, as the market grows bigger literally every day.

with the sweeping acceptance of cannabis comes the cannabis market. unfortunately, our government is notoriously slow at adapting laws and systems that keep up with modern times.

criminals are good at seizing opportunity: they are trying to get every cannabis dollar they can by any means necessary before they have to actually compete in a saturated market and produce product (spoiler alert: they will not survive).

this is what's happening, because there are essentially no consequences under the laws as they stand.

inhaling anything other than oxygen and exhaling anything other than CO2 is going to have a negative impact. period. i think we all can agree to that.

i am an avid supporter of personal liberties, which only stand as long as those liberties do not impede on the personal liberties of others. i have been preaching the decriminalization of cannabis since i was a pre-teen, and im so happy that my state will allow legal recreational cannabis sales in january 2020. the vape deaths were a big deal, but i stood by my beliefs and continued to try and educate people about cannabis.

but the other weekend my mom came home with CBD products. i was honestly floored. she has no idea what this crap is. one box didn't even list an address of the business. i told her she is not to take them until i do some research and test them myself.

do you see what im getting at here? there's two different conversations happening.

idk. im rambling now too. these are just my thoughts and opinions on it all i guess.