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  1. #1
    Registered User Daniel_Effler's Avatar
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    Boa experts help me decide if I should get a BCI.

    Hello! So I've been considering adding a BCI to my collection. But I'm not sure if it is right for me or write for me at this time.

    The BCI is one of 8 species on my bucket list. Ball pythons, ATB, ETB, MBK, Blood python, and BCI.

    I currently have ball pythons and two Amazon Tree Boa. Hoping to breed and sell enough to support my hobby and maybe put a dollar or two in my pocket. Not looking for it to become a full time job but over all be a net positive. Idk if I will ever have all or breed all the species on my bucket list or not but it's a dream of mine.

    Here is the thing. I'm afraid I might be moving to fast. I only started back hard into reptiles twoish years ago. I've always had a few geckos and used to keep corns and bearded dragons but never in large numbers. But now it two years I've accumulated 15 snakes (13 balls and 2 ATB). I have the itch for a BCI (jungle IMG motley) but I think I might be moving too fast. Yes I have the funds to support them and pay for possible vet bills. But just because I can doesn't necessarily mean I should.

    What do you all think? How much more work would a BCI ad to my workload? I've never had anything that gets as big as a BCI before.

    I know I'm still learning a lot and I don't want to be overwhelmed. They are beautiful snakes and I would love one but is now the time?

    I feel like I'm trying to talk myself out of it. Lol

    But I need a second more knowledgeable opinion thany own.

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  3. #2
    Bogertophis's Avatar
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    It all depends on what you consider "work" as in "work-load" and how much free time (& energy) you actually have- & still be able to keep up with whatever the rest of your life involves- that's not something we can answer for you, I'm afraid.

    To get the "best" out of our pets, I think we need to spend quality time with them- beyond just slinging rodents & cleaning their homes. Otherwise they just become a chore.

    I'd stay out of breeding unless you're planning a serious effort in that direction- it takes luck, skills, & the right investments to make money selling. Without that, you may only break even or even lose money. Living creatures can have health problems, equipment can fail, & not everything is "meant to be". And breeding-& selling takes a lot more time & energy. That's a whole different question than just adding one boa, lol.
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 03-26-2022 at 05:04 PM.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
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  5. #3
    BPnet Veteran Malum Argenteum's Avatar
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    This is mostly about the business of breeding, not about boas which I know roughly nothing about. They seem cool.

    I got into breeding pretty organically -- just adding animals and projects that attracted me for whatever reason, like it seems you are doing. It has gotten pretty big: I have about 50 breeders -- geckos and snakes -- and a handful of dart frog vivariums, and at least that many hatchlings/neonates hanging around most of the year (often a lot more, and that's where it turns into a chore).

    That's all doable for me, but I've been very ready to drop projects when they aren't making me happy. Blood pythons were fun until I bred them; I just didn't care for the hatchlings at all, and selling them was miserable. Leopard geckos eat too much and too often and overnighting bugs all winter to the frozen north gets way too expensive, so I cut that back a lot. And so on.

    So if there is something you want to keep and breed (and there's a legitimate market for the offspring), I say go for it. Just be ready to shift gears when you need to. And do a lot of that 'talking yourself out of it' -- I'm forever researching species that I think I might like to keep, and most of them get nixed pretty early on because I want to make sure I'm not going to put more into a species then I'll get out of it (speaking in terms of personal reward here, not so much financially).

    Be aware (perhaps you are, but not everyone is) that breeding for selling now basically requires starting a legitimate business, as starting in 2022 all payment processors (PayPal, Square, etc) are required to report annual transactions of over $600 to the IRS. So unless you want to pay income taxes on 100% of your sales you'll need to file business taxes so you can deduct expenses, and many (most? all?) states require sales tax to be paid on these sorts of transactions so you'll need a state sellers' permit.

    What Bogertophis says about quality time is really wise. I'd point out that there are a couple kinds of quality time with herps. One is taking them out and watching movies with them, but another is focusing on making sure everything in your overall operation is up to snuff -- housing and husbandry, but also long term goals with breeding, and taking time with the animals to track them to make decisions about which offspring are holdbacks, and similar sorts of 'administrative' stuff that actually brings a keeper closer to their animals in a different way than hands-on interaction. I'm currently (for a couple years now, I guess) working on thinning down my number of projects so I can move animals into larger/better enclosures. That whole ongoing project is a kind of quality engagement, too. Different, but not necessarily less rewarding. Anyway, with a room full of diverse animals, there is always one that wants to sit and read a book with you.

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  7. #4
    Registered User Daniel_Effler's Avatar
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    Re: Boa experts help me decide if I should get a BCI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    It all depends on what you consider "work" as in "work-load" and how much free time (& energy) you actually have- & still be able to keep up with whatever the rest of your life involves- that's not something we can answer for you, I'm afraid.

    To get the "best" out of our pets, I think we need to spend quality time with them- beyond just slinging rodents & cleaning their homes. Otherwise they just become a chore.

    I'd stay out of breeding unless you're planning a serious effort in that direction- it takes luck, skills, & the right investments to make money selling. Without that, you may only break even or even lose money. Living creatures can have health problems, equipment can fail, & not everything is "meant to be". And breeding-& selling takes a lot more time & energy. That's a whole different question than just adding one boa, lol.
    Thanks for the perspective. Yes it's definitely a big commitment and a long term one.
    I can't wait to get into the breeding. I am trying to get into a few decent projects and hope it is profitable. If it turned into a full time job I wouldn't mind doing that I just don't want to put all my eggs in that basket just in case it doesn't get there. I love spending time in the snake room. I definitely have my favorites I spend more time with but they all are a joy.

    Sent from my SM-S426DL using Tapatalk

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  9. #5
    Registered User Daniel_Effler's Avatar
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    Re: Boa experts help me decide if I should get a BCI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum View Post
    This is mostly about the business of breeding, not about boas which I know roughly nothing about. They seem cool.

    I got into breeding pretty organically -- just adding animals and projects that attracted me for whatever reason, like it seems you are doing. It has gotten pretty big: I have about 50 breeders -- geckos and snakes -- and a handful of dart frog vivariums, and at least that many hatchlings/neonates hanging around most of the year (often a lot more, and that's where it turns into a chore).

    That's all doable for me, but I've been very ready to drop projects when they aren't making me happy. Blood pythons were fun until I bred them; I just didn't care for the hatchlings at all, and selling them was miserable. Leopard geckos eat too much and too often and overnighting bugs all winter to the frozen north gets way too expensive, so I cut that back a lot. And so on.

    So if there is something you want to keep and breed (and there's a legitimate market for the offspring), I say go for it. Just be ready to shift gears when you need to. And do a lot of that 'talking yourself out of it' -- I'm forever researching species that I think I might like to keep, and most of them get nixed pretty early on because I want to make sure I'm not going to put more into a species then I'll get out of it (speaking in terms of personal reward here, not so much financially).

    Be aware (perhaps you are, but not everyone is) that breeding for selling now basically requires starting a legitimate business, as starting in 2022 all payment processors (PayPal, Square, etc) are required to report annual transactions of over $600 to the IRS. So unless you want to pay income taxes on 100% of your sales you'll need to file business taxes so you can deduct expenses, and many (most? all?) states require sales tax to be paid on these sorts of transactions so you'll need a state sellers' permit.

    What Bogertophis says about quality time is really wise. I'd point out that there are a couple kinds of quality time with herps. One is taking them out and watching movies with them, but another is focusing on making sure everything in your overall operation is up to snuff -- housing and husbandry, but also long term goals with breeding, and taking time with the animals to track them to make decisions about which offspring are holdbacks, and similar sorts of 'administrative' stuff that actually brings a keeper closer to their animals in a different way than hands-on interaction. I'm currently (for a couple years now, I guess) working on thinning down my number of projects so I can move animals into larger/better enclosures. That whole ongoing project is a kind of quality engagement, too. Different, but not necessarily less rewarding. Anyway, with a room full of diverse animals, there is always one that wants to sit and read a book with you.
    Thank you for the information about the business side of it and the prospective. I am planning on opening up a business and have been looking at what I will need. It is definitely a very confusing thing when you start wading the legal waters. A DBA will be needed for me to use the name I have chosen for my business but then I'm not sure if I will need a direct sales licensure or an LLC. It's all really confusing. I'll probably sit down with a lawyer one day before I do all of that just to see if I'm doing everything correctly.

    I'm definitely big on trying to optimize the care that I give my animals. And I get joy out of improving their life in little ways when I can. I find the science of the genetics endlessly interesting and am always amazed at the beauty of these creatures. Later on as my projects progress I will probably be selling off some of my breeders and if some projects end up being too much for me or too much of a hassle and I want to go another way I could see myself selling off a project. Right now I think I am getting into some pretty standard profitable projects in the ball pythons. That said a lot of other people are in the same projects LOL. So the question of how well a business will do when it starts up I know will be directly proportional to the initial sales and reviews.

    If I was to get into BCIs as a breeding project and not just a pet I don't think I would ever have a large number of them like I do the ball pythons. If I was to get into those I would probably just do something like a trio or something. Producing the solid black BCIs and maybe an albino pairing with a het on the male. The interesting thing about the bci's is the individuality and bloodlines of different traits. It is kept up with a lot more than it is with ball pythons. The closest that I see with ball pythons is the different axanthic lines.

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  11. #6
    BPnet Lifer EL-Ziggy's Avatar
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    Re: Boa experts help me decide if I should get a BCI.

    I can’t speak to the breeding side of things. Snakes are pretty low maintenance pets and don’t need much attention so adding one more to your crew shouldn’t be too demanding on you. The husbandry is pretty similar to BPs so there’s not much of a learning curve there either. If you have the funds and space available to house a new critter then I really don’t see a downside. Boas are awesome snakes to keep and a nice progression from BPs. It sounds like a good move to me.
    3.0 Carpet Pythons, 1.1 Bullsnakes
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  13. #7
    BPnet Lifer Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Boa experts help me decide if I should get a BCI.

    Not a boa expert or keeper but I do have a background in business. Having hailed from N.Y.C originally and starting a reptile business while there I do know that it’s a supply and demand concept that drives most businesses. If you don’t have what’s high on the market list it will be harder as customers will be drawn to where they can get the product. In this case a particular reptile. Having legally obtained a “certificate of authority “ to vend at shows and charge taxes and pay business taxes. It was a monthly filing with the opportunity to claim expenses at the end of the year. Foodstuffs, electricity, housing and occupied space were some of the claimed expenses along with travel to and from shows and expos. It really wasn’t too bad. A genuine experience.
    Last edited by Albert Clark; 03-27-2022 at 06:47 PM.
    Stay in peace and not pieces.

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  15. #8
    BPnet Veteran WrongPython's Avatar
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    Re: Boa experts help me decide if I should get a BCI.

    First off, I'll say that BI make wonderful pets and that whenever you feel comfortable adding one, I don't think you'll regret your decision. There's a reason why boas are as popular as they are. Boas' popularity means they aren't going anywhere, so you should be able to find the boa of your dreams whenever you're ready.

    That being said... the fact that you feel like you're talking yourself out of adding a boa at this moment means something. If you're not feeling 100% enthusiastic and confident with the decision to bring on a new animal it's best to hold off. Snakes are a living, breathing, long-term commitment, and taking a new individual on isn't a decision that should be taken lightly. For what it's worth, I've been back into reptiles for roughly as long as you have and I personally can't imagine caring for 15 snakes at the moment. Yeah, they're comparatively easier to care for compared to most other pets, but they still find a way to eat up more money, space, and time than you'd anticipate. Three have certainly been enough to keep me busy!

    I think another important thing to consider is that you'll likely start breeding in the relatively near future. That's a fairly demanding process in and of itself, and could very well eat into the time you'd planned on spending with your boa. I think the best thing you could do right now is hold down the fort with the snakes you already have, start setting both them and yourself up for future success, give it a season or two, and see how things go. Who knows? Maybe you'll find that your reptile priorities will have changed by then.
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  17. #9
    Registered User Daniel_Effler's Avatar
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    Re: Boa experts help me decide if I should get a BCI.

    That you everyone. I think what I am going to do is wait a year and revisit this. In the time in-between I'm going to mail down the business side of this and set myself up for success with that before I dive deeper into anything. Thank you all for your input!

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  18. #10
    BPnet Lifer Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Boa experts help me decide if I should get a BCI.

    Dan , you have a amazing collection as it is already. For someone new to breeding and the business aspirations you have I commend you. Yes, be patient and grow those specimens you already have. Not to dissuade you but remember those male balls can breed successfully at lower weights and younger ages. You may be closer than you realize to producing something spectacular. Yes, the females take longer to mature and become capable of reproduction but just hold on.


    Stay in peace and not pieces.

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