Taming/Bonding Question

[Awesomethepossum]

I've posted in this forum a few times over the past few weeks, and everyone has been extremely helpful. I have yet another question- after a little ball python story of mine (relevant).

A few years ago I worked with a 7-8 year old male "normal" ball. As part of my job as a naturalist, I was required to handle him for sometimes hours at a time during my shifts. Of course I was initially nervous about this, as the programs frequently involved contact with children and other loud stimuli, but I was quickly amazed at how dog-like this snake was.

He was housed in a display tank in public view, and ate on a weekly basis (time of day didn't matter, nor did having a noisy audience) and never missed a meal. He would sleep around my neck or on my lap for hours if I let him, and you could even touch his head.

He was/is a gentle, confident, forgiving snake. During my time at the museum, he reached through to so many people who were initially terrified of snakes, and he's the reason I own one today.

Anyway, this leads up to my main question:

How typical is this?

And, within reason, can any ball python have the potential to be conditioned into a similar way with enough desensitization? Assuming you start exposure at a young age?

[Craiga 01453]

Most ball pythons will have a similar disposition. Their docile temperaments are one of the major reasons they're the most popular snake in the pet hobby.

Of course, some will never settle down to quite that extent.

Both of my BPs are super chill, both content to chill and watch TV with me for basically as long as I want to keep them out. I typically cut handling sessions off at around an hour, but have gone longer.

I find it's important to read and understand their body language and mannerisms and let them "tell you" when they're ready to go back into their enclosures.
With my BPs and King, I almost never see any behavior that indicates stress at all when they're out. My Hognose, KSB and Borneo STP are all good at "letting me know" when they've had enough though.

So I think your best bet is to watch and observe your BP while out. Look for increased tongue flicking, noticable inflation and deflation of lungs, and quick skittish movements. Those are all signs of stress or discomfort.

BPs should make slow, calculated movements with slow consistent tongue flicks.

Try to always end handling sessions on a positive note as well.

[mdb730]

I have over 30 ball pythons in my collection and I can tell you they are all tolerate handling. I say tolerate handling because a snake is not a dog or cat that enjoys petting. I have had a few that were nippy as neonates but grew out of it with moderate handling. With a collection such as mine I don't have time to really handle for hours, I handle them when I clean, water or when conducting a health check. Most if not all ball pythons I've encountered have a natural gentle disposition so getting to that level you are speaking off is probably easier than you think.

[Awesomethepossum]

Most ball pythons will have a similar disposition. Their docile temperaments are one of the major reasons they're the most popular snake in the pet hobby.

Of course, some will never settle down to quite that extent.

Both of my BPs are super chill, both content to chill and watch TV with me for basically as long as I want to keep them out. I typically cut handling sessions off at around an hour, but have gone longer.

I find it's important to read and understand their body language and mannerisms and let them "tell you" when they're ready to go back into their enclosures.
With my BPs and King, I almost never see any behavior that indicates stress at all when they're out. My Hognose, KSB and Borneo STP are all good at "letting me know" when they've had enough though.

So I think your best bet is to watch and observe your BP while out. Look for increased tongue flicking, noticable inflation and deflation of lungs, and quick skittish movements. Those are all signs of stress or discomfort.

BPs should make slow, calculated movements with slow consistent tongue flicks.

Try to always end handling sessions on a positive note as well.

Thank you for your response. I just see a lot of posts about ball python stress, but I suppose that would have to do with age then. This was the only other ball python I've ever handled or cared for so I wasn't sure.

After Dante is done shedding I'll start handling him more frequently. As of now, he puffs in his tank and lurches his body away when I touch him. He's 3 months, so I have time.

[Awesomethepossum]

I have over 30 ball pythons in my collection and I can tell you they are all tolerate handling. I say tolerate handling because a snake is not a dog or cat that enjoys petting. I have had a few that were nippy as neonates but grew out of it with moderate handling. With a collection such as mine I don't have time to really handle for hours, I handle them when I clean, water or when conducting a health check. Most if not all ball pythons I've encountered have a natural gentle disposition so getting to that level you are speaking off is probably easier than you think.

Of course I wouldn't be putting my own snake in such situations, but yes, I wasnt sure how easy it was to achieve. Thank you

[Bogertophis]

...

He was/is a gentle, confident, forgiving snake. During my time at the museum, he reached through to so many people who were initially terrified of snakes, and he's the reason I own one today.

Anyway, this leads up to my main question:

How typical is this?

And, within reason, can any ball python be conditioned to be this mellow with enough desensitization?

Snakes are like people or any other animals...there are "typical" personalities but also individual differences which may be genetic or based on their past experiences, &
likely the result of both combined, not to mention the empathy of the person with whom they have the most contact...I believe that may be the biggest influence of all.

I say this as one who has over 3 decades of practice sharing my snakes with "the public", & I just had 3 of my snakes to the local fairgrounds for a 3 hour "meet & greet"
during the annual "Wildlife Expo". During that time, my snakes were held by me & by others -touched by many hands without a trace of distress, much less hostility.
I'm very proud of the way my snakes remain calm thru all such events, particularly because we don't do many of these any more, so it's not as if it's their "routine". We
were there, set up & non-stop interaction*, & that "3 hours" didn't include the pack-up and travel time to & from the location. The event was tiring for me as well as my
snakes, but always worth it to change hearts & minds about snakes and promote tolerance & appreciation of wild species. (*they had rotating breaks throughout though)

In my experience, once my snakes are calm with me, that appears to carry over to all other people they meet. Ball pythons are generally mellow snakes to begin with,
but I no longer keep BPs. The "good-will ambassadors" I took this time were a 4' Trans Pecos rat snake, a normal corn snake, & my Australian spotted python. I usually
take one of my 7' male Florida rat snakes but didn't this year -they're getting heavy & I opted for variety in what I could carry easily in one trip, as I couldn't park close
this time.

So no one can really answer your question, at least not with a guarantee: some BPs are shyer than others, some might go off feeding as a result, but IMO most snakes
learn to feel secure when their caretaker has patience & empathy, so I'd predict you'll have continued success...I hope so. It's lots of fun too.

Afterward, I tucked my tired snakes into their clean enclosures for a nap, then dinner...they really work up appetites doing this, & they're already looking for more.

[Awesomethepossum]

Snakes are like people or any other animals...there are "typical" personalities but also individual differences which may be genetic or based on their past experiences, &
likely the result of both combined, not to mention the empathy of the person with whom they have the most contact...I believe that may be the biggest influence of all.

I say this as one who has over 3 decades of practice sharing my snakes with "the public", & I just had 3 of my snakes to the local fairgrounds for a 3 hour "meet & greet"
during the annual "Wildlife Expo". During that time, my snakes were held by me & by others -touched by many hands without a trace of distress, much less hostility.
I'm very proud of the way my snakes remain calm thru all such events, particularly because we don't do many of these any more, so it's not as if it's their "routine". We
were there, set up & non-stop interaction*, & that "3 hours" didn't include the pack-up and travel time to & from the location. The event was tiring for me as well as my
snakes, but always worth it to change hearts & minds about snakes and promote tolerance & appreciation of wild species. (*they had rotating breaks throughout though)

In my experience, once my snakes are calm with me, that appears to carry over to all other people they meet. Ball pythons are generally mellow snakes to begin with,
but I no longer keep BPs. The "good-will ambassadors" I took this time were a 4' Trans Pecos rat snake, a normal corn snake, & my Australian spotted python. I usually
take one of my 7' male Florida rat snakes but didn't this year -they're getting heavy & I opted for variety in what I could carry easily in one trip, as I couldn't park close
this time.

So no one can really answer your question, at least not with a guarantee: some BPs are shyer than others, some might go off feeding as a result, but IMO most snakes
learn to feel secure when their caretaker has patience & empathy, so I'd predict you'll have continued success...I hope so. It's lots of fun too.

Afterward, I tucked my tired snakes into their clean enclosures for a nap, then dinner...they really work up appetites doing this, & they're already looking for more.

It always makes me happy to hear about snakes (or reptiles, in general) getting public exposure by knowledgeable owners/educators. Personable experiences are game-changers. You can end the day knowing you and your ambassador changed someone's perspective and made their day.

It's been very rewarding. Now that Dante is actually eating for me, I've noticed that he actually doesn't mind being handled before a meal. Baby steps!

[Bogertophis]

FYI, the snakes I took are all established adults, about 10-11 years old that I've raised (or had since a year old or less). I wouldn't take an elderly snake for obvious
reasons, nor one that's under a few years of age, but I've never had any of my snakes "mis-behave" or appear to suffer any ill effects afterwards from such programs,
even though 3 hours IS a long time. (I've done 4 hours at this event in the past, but 3 is better & long enough.) It's so much fun watching the faces of both children
and adults when they can see & touch a snake up close, and realize just how gentle & mellow snakes can be. This event is held in a huge air-conditioned building
at the fairgrounds, by the way...it's way too hot outside. The snake I worried most about was my corn snake, as they prefer to be cooler, whereas my spotted python
loves warm hands, & Trans Pecos rat snakes are from the desert. The larger bodied snakes (like my huge Florida rat snakes, or such as a boa or ball python) take a
lot longer before they'd be overly warm with so many hands on them, but as I said, I rotated "break-times" using separate plastic display cages on the table.

This sort of casual education is work & takes planning, but the reward is hearing so many people say things like they never expected to like snakes so much.

[Awesomethepossum]

FYI, the snakes I took are all established adults, about 10-11 years old that I've raised (or had since a year old or less). I wouldn't take an elderly snake for obvious
reasons, nor one that's under a few years of age, but I've never had any of my snakes "mis-behave" or appear to suffer any ill effects afterwards from such programs,
even though 3 hours IS a long time. (I've done 4 hours at this event in the past, but 3 is better & long enough.) It's so much fun watching the faces of both children
and adults when they can see & touch a snake up close, and realize just how gentle & mellow snakes can be. This event is held in a huge air-conditioned building
at the fairgrounds, by the way...it's way too hot outside. The snake I worried most about was my corn snake, as they prefer to be cooler, whereas my spotted python
loves warm hands, & Trans Pecos rat snakes are from the desert. The larger bodied snakes (like my huge Florida rat snakes, or such as a boa or ball python) take a
lot longer before they'd be overly warm with so many hands on them, but as I said, I rotated "break-times" using separate plastic display cages on the table.

This sort of casual education is work & takes planning, but the reward is hearing so many people say things like they never expected to like snakes so much.

Very organized! Most of the encounters were indoors, in air conditioning-unless the weather permitted it. It's always a factor, so it can make matters more complicated.

A notable experience for me was a few years ago, when I had a teen with low-functioning autism come into the museum. He was mute, and similar to others on the more severe end of the spectrum, had an extreme sensitivity to external stimuli, and avoided eye contact.

Anyway, it was a slow day, so I decided to surprise him (with his mother's permission) with a one-on-one, meet-n-greet with Hermes. While he was a tad bit rough petting the snake (not that it was intentional), Hermes was very patient and rested in place.

It was a brief encounter, but the young man was visibly excited by the experience- so much so that he made eye contact with me and smiled (which made his mom thrilled)! This alone has stuck with me since then (and made me fall in love with ball pythons).

It doesn't take much to make someone's day.

[Bogertophis]

Sometimes animals can make better "connections" than people.

Not long after I got into snakes (many years back) I moved to the high desert & got involved with a local nature museum that kept snakes & other local wildlife.
Wasn't long after that I was encouraged by the curator to share my enthusiasm, & despite having always hated "public speaking", I loved snakes enough to try it.

I love seeing people of all ages & backgrounds change their minds about them, & as you've noticed, when we "make someone else's day" it often makes our own.