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Thread: Probing issue

  1. #1
    BPnet Veteran Medduussa's Avatar
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    Probing issue

    I’ve been interested in breeding ball pythons for awhile now but I don’t know how to probe. Recently I bought a ball python off of Kijiji and the woman tried to show me how but she seemed pretty inexperienced. She used a probe that seemed a bit small? She probed the snake and it went pretty deep on one side the other side was shallow. Then I brought her to a local breeder and he probed her the same depth on both sides? Now I feel really uncomfortable if she’s male or female because why would the small one go deep but the bigger probe go shallow?? I don’t understand.


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  2. #2
    BPnet Veteran Alicia's Avatar
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    I probe, so I'mma try to answer this, since no one else has.

    A smaller diameter probe has a greater chance of puncturing the 'out pocket' of a female, her hemipenal homologue, than does a larger probe. This is because it's easier to concentrate too much pressure on the smaller point than on the larger if the prober doesn't really know what they're doing. That's the big risk of not knowing how to probe. Then, if a pocket was punctured in the past, it's easier to re-enter the remaining hole with a smaller probe than with a larger one. From what I understand, once punctured, the puncture is there for the life of the snake.

    On the flip side, some of the weird depths might be natural. BPs in general seem more flexible about probing depths than, say, corn snakes. Because it's relatively common for too-small probes to go very deep in female pythons, I'm not sure that the full pocket isn't sometimes fairly long, it's just that it narrows so quickly, an appropriately sized probe usually won't go past 3-4 scales on most girls. *

    What did the breeder you brought this female to for probing say she was, male or female? Did he talk you through it at all?


    *The occasional female will go deeper, just to confuse things.

  3. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Alicia For This Useful Post:

    dr del (08-21-2019),Lord Sorril (08-21-2019),Medduussa (08-21-2019)

  4. #3
    BPnet Veteran Medduussa's Avatar
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    Re: Probing issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Alicia View Post
    I probe, so I'mma try to answer this, since no one else has.

    A smaller diameter probe has a greater chance of puncturing the 'out pocket' of a female, her hemipenal homologue, than does a larger probe. This is because it's easier to concentrate too much pressure on the smaller point than on the larger if the prober doesn't really know what they're doing. That's the big risk of not knowing how to probe. Then, if a pocket was punctured in the past, it's easier to re-enter the remaining hole with a smaller probe than with a larger one. From what I understand, once punctured, the puncture is there for the life of the snake.

    On the flip side, some of the weird depths might be natural. BPs in general seem more flexible about probing depths than, say, corn snakes. Because it's relatively common for too-small probes to go very deep in female pythons, I'm not sure that the full pocket isn't sometimes fairly long, it's just that it narrows so quickly, an appropriately sized probe usually won't go past 3-4 scales on most girls. *

    What did the breeder you brought this female to for probing say she was, male or female? Did he talk you through it at all?


    *The occasional female will go deeper, just to confuse things.
    He told me it was female. But I am just curious as to what size is a proper size for a probe? I have a picture of the larger probe he used because I wanted to show you for size. so I will insert it. I just feel quite confused.


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  5. #4
    BPnet Veteran Medduussa's Avatar
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    Re: Probing issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Alicia View Post
    I probe, so I'mma try to answer this, since no one else has.

    A smaller diameter probe has a greater chance of puncturing the 'out pocket' of a female, her hemipenal homologue, than does a larger probe. This is because it's easier to concentrate too much pressure on the smaller point than on the larger if the prober doesn't really know what they're doing. That's the big risk of not knowing how to probe. Then, if a pocket was punctured in the past, it's easier to re-enter the remaining hole with a smaller probe than with a larger one. From what I understand, once punctured, the puncture is there for the life of the snake.

    On the flip side, some of the weird depths might be natural. BPs in general seem more flexible about probing depths than, say, corn snakes. Because it's relatively common for too-small probes to go very deep in female pythons, I'm not sure that the full pocket isn't sometimes fairly long, it's just that it narrows so quickly, an appropriately sized probe usually won't go past 3-4 scales on most girls. *

    What did the breeder you brought this female to for probing say she was, male or female? Did he talk you through it at all?


    *The occasional female will go deeper, just to confuse things.
    Both sides when he probed did not go deep. They went around 3-4 scales. While when using the smaller probe one side went around 6 scales and the other 4.


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  6. #5
    BPnet Veteran Alicia's Avatar
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    Re: Probing issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Medduussa View Post
    He told me it was female. But I am just curious as to what size is a proper size for a probe?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Couples ways to pick probe size. One is going by the over all size of the snake. I've got my probe kit right here and looking at it with a ruler, I use the 1mm ball for babies after several meals or ~100 grams, the ~ 1.2mm for juvies/subadults, and if I were to probe an adult, I'd probably go with the 2mm one.

    Unfortunately I'm not looking at this relative to a snake right now, but this corresponds to ~1/5-ish of the anal scale, or about half of one of the BP's subcaudal scales. Not sure I'm visualizing that right. I'll see if I can't grab a snake tomorrow and really compare for a better description.

    The big thing is to be very, very gentle. If it does not slip in easily, it's too large. If it seems like it's going in super easy anywhere to the mid line of the cloaca, it's probably too small. Never ever push or attempt to force it. Once in, a male will feel "springy" and have a soft stop, a female feels more like an immediate hard stop. Males can be almost surprising when you draw the probe out. It does not feel like it's going in, if that makes sense, until you hit resistance. Any resistance, stop immediately. If someone has messed up a snake in the past, it's usually the left side that will probe too deep -- the right hand side of the heavy-handed prober. Hence, why people probe both sides.


    edit to add - from the photo, I'm guessing that's a 2mm ball on that probe, which is probably what I'd use, as well.
    Last edited by Alicia; 08-21-2019 at 07:19 PM.

  7. #6
    BPnet Veteran Medduussa's Avatar
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    Re: Probing issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Alicia View Post
    Couples ways to pick probe size. One is going by the over all size of the snake. I've got my probe kit right here and looking at it with a ruler, I use the 1mm ball for babies after several meals or ~100 grams, the ~ 1.2mm for juvies/subadults, and if I were to probe an adult, I'd probably go with the 2mm one.

    Unfortunately I'm not looking at this relative to a snake right now, but this corresponds to ~1/5-ish of the anal scale, or about half of one of the BP's subcaudal scales. Not sure I'm visualizing that right. I'll see if I can't grab a snake tomorrow and really compare for a better description.

    The big thing is to be very, very gentle. If it does not slip in easily, it's too large. If it seems like it's going in super easy anywhere to the mid line of the cloaca, it's probably too small. Never ever push or attempt to force it. Once in, a male will feel "springy" and have a soft stop, a female feels more like an immediate hard stop. Males can be almost surprising when you draw the probe out. It does not feel like it's going in, if that makes sense, until you hit resistance. Any resistance, stop immediately. If someone has messed up a snake in the past, it's usually the left side that will probe too deep -- the right hand side of the heavy-handed prober. Hence, why people probe both sides.


    edit to add - from the photo, I'm guessing that's a 2mm ball on that probe, which is probably what I'd use, as well.
    I really appreciate your reply!!! This is very informative


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  8. #7
    BPnet Veteran Alicia's Avatar
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    Re: Probing issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Medduussa View Post
    I really appreciate your reply!!! This is very informative


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I just hope it helps! Still, it's definitely one of those, have someone show you in person kind of things.

    Small followup, I went ahead and broke out the ruler with a couple snakes -- the probe I'd use with them did indeed come out to about 1/5 the width of the anal scale.

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