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  1. #1
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    3 days in after bringing home my first BP! Meet Guts! (help needed) *LONG POST*

    Hi there! this is my 3rd day with Guts my brand new Albino BP. I've never owned a ball python before and I'm not really sure what to expect. I made a post earlier about how the person caring for him on behalf of his previous owner was leaving the heat lamp off during the day in 75 degree weather, with no heat gradient, for who knows HOW long. Because of that I went out of my way to get him as soon as I could. Everything seems alright with him although I really need help understanding what are signs of stress and what isn't. I really would have no way to identify any neurological issues as I don't know what a BP SHOULD act like.

    He's about 6 months old. I had to handle him once the first day to re arrange the enclosure (when i snapped the picture) as it all came with him and he did not ball as expected, in fact he just seems to only want down/move around more than anything. Is that a bigger sign of stress than balling would be? I have not seen him ball a single time yet.

    I do see him travel from hot to cool hide every so often, and i have seen him drink water atleast 3 times.

    The measurements within the tank:
    Hot side: 90F
    Cool side: 73F
    Humidity: About 30%. I have been trying to mist but I can't figure out how much to add to raise it to about 40-50%. I also made a humidity box which he won't go into so I might take that out until I see him about to shed.

    here are some questions i have:
    He has a Red heat lamp, do I need to invest in a daytime bulb to simulate day/night cycles or can I use the red one the whole time?
    When I put him down after handling the first time mentioned above he just sat in the middle of his enclosure not going to any hide and looking sort of upwards for atleast 10 minutes. Is this stargazing? I haven't seen it happen since.
    What are obvious signs of stress I can look for while he's in his enclosure (without me touching him)
    What are signs of stress i can look for when I start handling him?
    How often should I be feeding a 6 month old BP? I see 5-6 days and I see 10-14 days. I'd like to help him grow/bulk up in anyway that i can.

    He was supposedly a very good eater/striker and has been eating f/t pinkie rats. His last feeding was on the 13th.

    Note-*i have invested quite a bit of funds getting his current enclosure and him ready but as soon as he's needs a size up I plan to switch him into a tub with a heat mat and thermostat but changing the enclosure completely right now is not within my budget* (I can look to do that in a month or two probably).

    Sorry for the SUPER long post and thank you all for being so welcoming in my previous posts! I have done hours upon hours of research in YT vids, caresheets and this forum and yet I bring him home and I feel so worried after bringing him home. Maybe i'm just a classic new owner and freaking out for no reason


    Last edited by viennae; 07-16-2019 at 09:23 AM.

  2. #2
    Registered User redpandakitty's Avatar
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    Re: 3 days in after bringing home my first BP! Meet Guts! (help needed) *LONG POST*

    Congrats on your new addition!

    Do you have natural light that comes into the room he is in? I personally think having a day/night cycle is good for our snakes even if they are nocturnal. I would recommend a day bulb if there isn't any other kind of light in his room (doesn't have to be for heat, just need a light source). Ball pythons aren't baskers so I would definitely recommend getting a heat mat with a thermostat for belly heat in addition to, or to replace the heat lamp, as soon as possible.

    I don't think the fact he didn't ball up is a sign of stress; I've had a couple that didn't do this when I first acquired them either, and were more interested in their surroundings. I think the real test on how stressed he is or isn't will be if he eats for you. Hissing and refusing to come out of their ball are signs of stress. Increased respiration is also a sign of a stressed animal of any kind. But handling them when they are stressed isn't necessarily a bad thing (if there's a purpose to it, that is) provided you do it for short periods of time.

    I would feed him once a week and make sure his prey is the appropriate size - it should be about as big around as the widest part of his body.

    Ball pythons like an enclosed space so I would recommend switching the log hide out with something that only has one opening. He might feel too exposed otherwise and not use this as often. I would also recommend putting his humid hide on the warm side - he'll probably never use it if it's cold.

    I don't know how often you're misting, but I would do it a least twice a day.




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  4. #3
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    I recommend these hide boxes: https://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes

    For the humidity I would cover the screen on top of the cage about 3/4 u can use just about anything to do this. When I use cypress mulch in my 2'x2'x2' enclosure I wet down the substrate. To do this I do one of 2 things. I either spray down the cypress until its soaked on the top layer, and then move it all around, and spray again lightly, or I grab a cup and slowly drizzle the water on to the cypress agitating it as I go to try to wet everything evenly. I was able to get the humidity to about 80% when needed using this method. You can play with it to figure out what will work best for you though.

    The one good thing about humidity is that if you make too much all you have to do is remove whats blocking the screen, and it will drop like a rock.

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  6. #4
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    Re: 3 days in after bringing home my first BP! Meet Guts! (help needed) *LONG POST*

    Quote Originally Posted by sur3fir3 View Post
    I recommend these hide boxes: https://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes

    For the humidity I would cover the screen on top of the cage about 3/4 u can use just about anything to do this

    I had the log hides also, but have since switched to the Reptile Basics hide mentioned above, all 3 snakes make use of them on the hot and cold side

    To help with humidity in my glass tanks I cover with Aluminum foil, and leave a space open where I lay a damp washcloth over the screen, that helps the humidity level in the tanks

  7. #5
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    Pinkie rats (f/t) are not adequate nutrition or size for him...size up. But don't try to feed him just yet...best to wait at least a week when you get a new snake,
    to give them time to settle in. I'd feed him once every 7-10 days, unless he's in shed, then just skip until after he sheds.

    Red bulbs are fine to add warmth, day or night (IMO, some will disagree), and most snakes (including BPs) don't appreciate bright lights...just the normal room
    light is fine to establish their day/night cycle. I wouldn't use a regular bulb by day unless you dim it way down, & only if the room is dark without it, like no windows?

    Your cool side of 73* is too cool...you want that about 78*-80*. He might use his humid hide if you show him the door & encourage him to enter it, but don't do that
    yet, wait until he settles in (& eats for you) because it will take some handling from you. Eating is "job #1). I recommend using UTH (w/ thermostat) also, since they
    need "belly heat" to digest & since BPs are not climbers that are going to bask under overhead warmth.

    Many "ball pythons" never ball up, but if they do, it shows they're afraid & hope you'll leave them alone. Most snakes don't sit still either, when handled, but in time
    will usually learn to trust us & slow down, so just be gentle & patient. Snakes don't like to be out in the open (predators get them that way) so holding them close to
    your body feels safer to them than dangling them in the open; if you help them to feel "hidden" & safe, they'll calm down quicker. Also remember that in wild, the only
    thing that picks up a snake is a predator about to eat them...so don't take his nervousness personally...in time he'll learn that he's safe with your handling.

    Having the right kind of "hides" help them feel safe, settle in & eat for you. They prefer a snug fit (which means you'll either have to size up as they grow, or stuff some
    paper into the hide to make a closer fit while they grow); they prefer only one opening (doorway) that they can just fit thru after eating a meal; a "snug fit" also means
    a low "ceiling" and preferably not too light in weight.

    I don't think your snake was "stargazing"...he was just looking up & probably sniffing the air coming thru the screen top, realizing he's someplace different. The time to
    worry is if it continued for far longer, and if he seems unsteady- overly clumsy- & is unable to right himself if you turn him over.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  9. #6
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    Try a different humid hide that is covered (yours are transparent). The location of the entrance is not a big deal. I also drilled holes at the top of my ball python hides and he uses them without issues. It could be because he feels too exposed on there and ditched it.

    Another way to keep humidity up is to switch to a substrate like coco fiber or cypress mulch. I use coco fiber bricks (Not the bags) for my skink and it holds up humidity for days. You can also boost humidity by using a humidifier with or without a timer. In addition, using plexi glass to cover part of the mesh lid or wet towels helps as well.

    Your cool side is too cold as some had already mentioned.

    I'm not a fan of red lights for night time use. Red light or infrared light is a controversial topic. Some claims that they can see the light and it stresses them out while others don't think so. There are better options out there, imo, that does not potentially risk stressing out your snaks like the use of a CHE that emits no light and only heat. However, CHE is extremely hot and should not be used in small enclosures like a 10-20 gallon tank. Sometimes an easy fix is to move your tank in a room that has 77-80 F room temp.

    A lot of good advice has already been given to you so I have nothing else to add.

    I do want to state this for any new snake owner or potentially new snake owner reading this (And perhaps for your next pet): One should NEVER go into pet ownership unprepared or "not knowing what to expect." Plenty of research including how to tell what a normal or stressed out animal would look like should be ingrained in one's knowledge before obtaining said animal and try to wing it. That will only create more stress on yourself, the pet and increase the likelihood of preventable mistakes. There are books and numerous articles available for reading. Pet ownership is a long term homework assignment: keep reading, keep learning and preferably before bringing the animal home.

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  11. #7
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    Re: 3 days in after bringing home my first BP! Meet Guts! (help needed) *LONG POST*

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesenugget View Post

    I do want to state this for any new snake owner or potentially new snake owner reading this (And perhaps for your next pet): One should NEVER go into pet ownership unprepared or "not knowing what to expect." Plenty of research including how to tell what a normal or stressed out animal would look like should be ingrained in one's knowledge before obtaining said animal and try to wing it. That will only create more stress on yourself, the pet and increase the likelihood of preventable mistakes. There are books and numerous articles available for reading. Pet ownership is a long term homework assignment: keep reading, keep learning and preferably before bringing the animal home.
    hey there, I believe i did state earlier in the post that I did spend, probably a month or more researching and watching every youtube video I could find and asking questions on this forum and reading countless caresheets. It still feels quite different once you have it in your home and hands and thats where the, not sure what to expect comes in. It's also super difficult with ball pythons because there are SO many differing opinions, almost EVERY source you read disagrees with the previous! I decided this forum might be the best place in the end. Trust me, I read up hours and hours of material.
    Last edited by viennae; 07-16-2019 at 06:54 PM.

  12. #8
    BPnet Veteran Luvyna's Avatar
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    Re: 3 days in after bringing home my first BP! Meet Guts! (help needed) *LONG POST*

    Congrats on your new BP and welcome to the forum! Guts is a great looking albino, I really like his soft colouring. Reminds me a bit of a yogurt dessert

    From what you've described I don't think Guts sounds overly stressed (you'll know for sure when you try to feed him though). If he's thermoregulating, drinking, and hiding, that sounds like pretty healthy behaviour for a BP. Another obvious signs of stress, along with the ones others have mentioned, is a ball python roaming the tank constantly and refusing to hide during the day (cruising at night is normal though).

    If you're using a glass tank it's definitely harder to maintain temperatures and humidity, but still doable. If covering the screen top and using the humidity-holding substrates mentioned above isn't enough, you can also saturate some sphagnum moss with water, squeeze out the excess, and scatter it around the enclosure and inside the hides. I would definitely aim to get the humidity in the tank up to at least 50% since it isn't healthy for a BP to stay in a humid hide all the time, although it is a great place for them when in shed.

    I have also read that red lamps can cause stress to snakes, especially if left on all the time, because snakes can see red light and that means they never feel like it's dark in their enclosure. This probably isn't good because BPs usually come outside at night to drink, explore, and look for food and if it's never dark they might not feel safe to do so.

    For feeding, see this helpful feeding chart:

    I recommend feeding just once a week because power-feeding (feeding more than once a week) reportedly reduces a snake's lifespan and causes obesity. It's normally done to bring breeders up to size more quickly.

    Also, I would switch out the log hide with a "cave" style one asap because BPs are not the brightest bulbs and can get stuck inside them by doubling over or coiling up inside (example here). You need to be very careful with putting any kind of tube object inside a BP enclosure because they can't simply be lifted off of the snake like a cave can, and BPs are excellent at wedging themselves into tight spaces. Even toilet paper tubes used for enrichment should be cut along the vertical side so they form a "U" shaped hide rather than a tube. Also, that small hole I see in the side of the log could be a hazard if your BP gets a little bigger and tries to climb through it.

    It sounds like you want the best for your snake and have done research. It's fine to not be an expert at everything yet, everyone is constantly learning when snake-keeping. Good luck with your new BP and feel free to ask any questions you have here, everyone here is eager to help

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  14. #9
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    Re: 3 days in after bringing home my first BP! Meet Guts! (help needed) *LONG POST*

    Quote Originally Posted by viennae View Post
    I decided this forum might be the best place in the end.

    You found the right place. This site is awesome. The knowledge and experience the peeps have on this site is amazing and not just including BPs. Btw.... Guts is a great name!
    Last edited by Bodie; 07-16-2019 at 08:10 PM.
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  15. #10
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    Re: 3 days in after bringing home my first BP! Meet Guts! (help needed) *LONG POST*

    Quote Originally Posted by viennae View Post
    I decided this forum might be the best place in the end. Trust me, I read up hours and hours of material.
    Hello, welcome to the forum and the wonderful world of snake keeping.

    You've definitely found a great place to learn.

    Here's my two cents: Be EXTREMELY careful using YouTube as a learning tool. Choose very carefully what resources are trustworthy. Any moron with a snake can post a YouTube video.
    Don't get me wrong, there are some great resources on YouTube, but it's tough to filter through all the rubbish.

    Even within the internet as a whole, including this forum, it's easy for anybody with a keyboard and an internet connection can post whatever they want.
    Find reliable, experienced keepers and breeders to learn from and you'll be in good shape.

    You've gotten some good advice above, so keep learning. Read, read and read some more. Because to be honest, the hours of research you've done is a good start, but barely scratched the surface. The more we know about our pets the better we can care for them.
    Try to read about their biology, their behaviors in nature, etc...not just care sheets. Care sheets tell you VERY little about the animals themselves.

    Good luck, ask all the questions you may have, we're happy to help.

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