Unexpected problem with feeding....advice?

[hallir]

My little lady is 7 months old and a little over 200 g. Up til now eating a live rat pup or small adult mouse once a week. She’s had a great appetite with live feeders but I’m trying to transition her, first to fresh-killed and then to F/T. This was suggested to me so she can first get used to a feeder that is dead but still similar texture and smell to live before switching to F/T.


Once per week for the last two weeks, I have offered her a fresh-killed small adult mouse that had been euthanized about ten mins before at the feeder store. Warmed the body temp back up to living temp with a hairdryer, and offered her the mouse. Both times, she came right out, struck the mouse and coiled around it with her normal feeding response. However, on both occasions she then left the mouse after about ten minutes and returned to her hide. This last time, I even reheated the mouse a second time and offered it to her again. She struck it AGAIN, and left it again.


I don’t know what to try next or how to troubleshoot this. She seems hungry, and not too stressed to be interested in the meal. Husbandry is in order, too. What might be the problem? The size, temp, color, and presumably texture of mouse I’m offering hasn’t changed so I don’t know why she doesn’t want it. Should I keep offering her fresh killed mice each week? I don’t want to revert back to live and risk reinforcing her feeding habit but I also don’t want her to go hungry.


Thanks for hanging in there for a long-winded post!

[John1982]

Sounds like you're over halfway there. I'd try to get her to yank the next prekilled into her hide and just let her stay with it overnight without disturbing. A couple skipped feeds isn't even a minor issue for these snakes. A little tough love now might save you some headache in the future.

[Craiga 01453]

If the snake has been eating well all along and is in good health it won't hurt to wait her out for a while and stick to pre-killed or F/T.

If it were me, I'd just skip the pre-killed and try to feed F/T.

[Bogertophis]

You said she started off eating live rat pups or live mice & now refuses pre-killed mice? Why not try a p/k rat pup? It's possible she really prefers rats, but was more
stimulated to take either one only because they were live.

First, for her next meal, let a little more time go by between meals, so she is more motivated. (by offering every week, it adds stress anyway, to a finicky eater)

The way I'd personally train her to accept f/t is to first offer a live "appetizer" (small rat pup) & then immediately after, a f/t small* mouse while she is still in "feed mode".
*Just be sure that the 2 items together aren't too big of a meal. Some snakes will be pumped up enough to immediately accept item #2 after swallowing the first one, but some won't, & those you'll have to be patient, gentle & stealthy to "chain-feed" the f/t mouse into her still-open mouth JUST as she is swallowing the rat pup...& I do mean"nose to tail"...if you do it wrong, she'll ball up or spit out the mouse, but if you are subtle enough, the f/t mouse should get swallowed, & that should help acquaint her with the idea.

Better yet: just use 2 tiny rats, one live, one f/t...that's likely her preference & what you'll want to change her too anyway.

[Bogertophis]

By the way, I have switched BPs in the past using my above-described method, and it usually takes several times to make the complete substitution.
The main thing is to first give them the prey they prefer as an "appetizer" (not too big, so there's room for a second small item) & go from there.

[hallir]

Sounds like you're over halfway there. I'd try to get her to yank the next prekilled into her hide and just let her stay with it overnight without disturbing. A couple skipped feeds isn't even a minor issue for these snakes. A little tough love now might save you some headache in the future.

Do you think she would eat it later if I left it? I took it out of the tank before because I have a bioactive setup and the isopods were already starting to accumulate on the mouse after about ten minutes...😅

[hallir]

You said she started off eating live rat pups or live mice & now refuses pre-killed mice? Why not try a p/k rat pup? It's possible she really prefers rats, but was more
stimulated to take either one only because they were live.

First, for her next meal, let a little more time go by between meals, so she is more motivated. (by offering every week, it adds stress anyway, to a finicky eater)

The way I'd personally train her to accept f/t is to first offer a live "appetizer" (small rat pup) & then immediately after, a f/t small* mouse while she is still in "feed mode".
*Just be sure that the 2 items together aren't too big of a meal. Some snakes will be pumped up enough to immediately accept item #2 after swallowing the first one, but some won't, & those you'll have to be patient, gentle & stealthy to "chain-feed" the f/t mouse into her still-open mouth JUST as she is swallowing the rat pup...& I do mean"nose to tail"...if you do it wrong, she'll ball up or spit out the mouse, but if you are subtle enough, the f/t mouse should get swallowed, & that should help acquaint her with the idea.

Better yet: just use 2 tiny rats, one live, one f/t...that's likely her preference & what you'll want to change her too anyway.

Thanks for your advice! She’s only had one rat pup before. I have tried to go by size and the feeder store doesn’t always have rats small enough for her size. If they have a rat pup next time I’ll try that!

I might try the chain feeding idea. Is the idea that after a few chain feedings, she will be used to f/t and take it in the future? I’m not sure why she is leaving the prekilled meal in the first place, so I wasn’t sure if offering f/t would be too different for her.

[Bogertophis]

Thanks for your advice! She’s only had one rat pup before. I have tried to go by size and the feeder store doesn’t always have rats small enough for her size. If they have a rat pup next time I’ll try that!

I might try the chain feeding idea. Is the idea that after a few chain feedings, she will be used to f/t and take it in the future? I’m not sure why she is leaving the prekilled meal in the first place, so I wasn’t sure if offering f/t would be too different for her.

Yes, the idea is that the smell/taste of the f/t rodent becomes acceptable, once having eaten it a few times. BPs can be difficult to switch, & they don't all subscribe to the same norms, which is why it helps for you to have options to try. There are also those who insist to just keep trying without changing the prey offered until they get hungry enough to save themselves from starving, but I don't like to do that because "some" under-fed snakes get weaker & feel poorly so their appetite gets worse...they go into a "downward spiral" because they never feel well enough to eat.

It's frustrating for sure when you cannot always get the size & type of rodent you need for your snake. (it's how I got into breeding my own, but it's a lot more work & makes little sense if you only have one or a few snakes)

The other thing with offering f/t (or fresh-killed) rodents is HOW you offer them matters greatly...especially with picky snakes like BPs, but with others too, and if raising hatchlings. Using tongs & wiggling the prey a little "to make it look alive" can backfire if there's too much motion, or if the rodent appears to approach the snake. Snakes prefer to do the pouncing! In the wild, rodents don't turn themselves in to be eaten, so it freaks a snake out if they seem to do that. BPs rely on their heat-sensing pits, so getting the f/t rodent to the right temp. so they strike is often all they need, but some snakes hold on so long that the rodent cools off & then they leave it un-eaten.

When just buying rodents based on size, keep in mind that some snakes get fixated on one or the other (rats or mice). BPs are known to be picky eaters, so
that's why most ppl stick to just one thing, & since most BPs are started off on mouse hoppers, they prefer mice but then as they grow larger, most keepers
want them eating rats so that one item is big enough for a meal. Adult mice are too small, & many BPs will only eat ONE rodent per feeding, whether or not
it's too small...BPs are just picky & they "make their own rules"!