Vote for BP.Net for the 2013 Forum of the Year! Click here for more info.

» Site Navigation

» Home
 > FAQ

» Online Users: 336

11 members and 325 guests
Most users ever online was 3,642, 05-08-2016 at 08:50 AM.


» Today's Birthdays

» Stats

Members: 64,844
Threads: 239,405
Posts: 2,487,580
Top Poster: JLC (31,652)
Welcome to our newest member, Sleetygrub87
Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-17-2015
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    48
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
    Images: 1

    Entire Clutch of 7 Dead?

    Ill start this off by saying this was my first year attempting to breed BPs. Lets start from the beginning.

    Back in November I paired my BPs and saw multiple locks. I continued to breed them every 5-7 days for about a month before I noticed the female swelling. I assumed she was either ovulating or gravid and stopped the pairing. Come December this girl started to actually shrink down again so I assumed she reabsorbed the eggs (before this she had gone off food, wrapped her water bowl, rested on her sides). After I got her eating again, I decided to pair the two and yet again, I saw a lock. This time I only put them together 2 times, and decided to call it quits. Finally she sheds and I anxiously await the "post shed clutch" but it doesn't come... one week, two, three, and finally after a month of waiting post shed I decided she didn't take and i'll have to try again next year. This was about the 1st of February that I decided all was lost. Business as usual, she was eating like before and looking plump but not PLUMP. Finally I go to clean their cages on the 9th of May and don't notice anything out of the ordinary. On the 11th when I look again, there is a pile of eggs. Obviously I freak out, rapidly get my incubator up to temps, and place the eggs in a Tupperware with some saturated vermiculite underneath one of those white plastic egg trey light things... (IDK how to explain it, but this site suggested them, they have little squares and allow the eggs to be suspended over the water) ... Unfortunately the eggs must have been laid shortly after I checked the cages on the 9th because 1 was extremely desiccated and an almost instant write off (eventually it molded and was removed), 3 were very desiccated, 2 were slightly desiccated, and finally 2 were perfectly oval and plump going into the incubator.

    Unfortunately the one egg molded over, but was stuck to 4 others and I decided to keep it in there for fear of ripping the others. The other 4 dented ones never popped out, and I was concerned they were dead however there were veins in all 6 remaining eggs, so I kept them all incubating. I watched them very closely, temp ranges from 88F to 90F, popped the top 2 times (once at the end of May and once in the middle of June). Humidity wasn't an issue because there was standing water under the vermiculite, however I didn't have a gauge inside the box itself telling me how humid it was so hey I guess it could have been an issue? (re-reading and just to clarify, the eggs were on two layers of this egg sheet, and never once came in contact with the vermiculite or water)

    Finally we get to the 6th of July, 55 days after the 11th when I collected the eggs from mama. Though it was my first time, I was sure I could cut the eggs and have a peek at whether I had 6 new babies, or only 2. I was very careful and cut a 1in "V" without nicking any of the blood vessels. Lo and behold I somehow had 6 formed babies, though I couldn't get a very good look at them just a little patch of pattern. I touched them very lightly with my medical scissors and they all gave that little twitch. I'm on cloud nine. Well, the 7th comes around and I don't see any little heads poking out... Then this morning I open the box and get a nasty smell of rot, which I attribute to the egg I had removed just 2 days ago and proceed to look in the little V flaps I had made just 48 hours earlier. Nothing has changed, however there is now a green snot (srry, but that's what it looks like) that's beginning to reseal the eggs. They haven't moved, they aren't moving currently and I'm completely at a loss of what I should do. They're still in the incubator, just as they were before.

    I'm not sure how pictures will help, but if you need them I can probably figure out how to post them.. If anyone had any advice or information on what went wrong or what I should do going forward, I would appreciate it.

  2. #2
    Registered User Bogertophis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-28-2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    8,141
    Thanks
    11,277
    Thanked 6,304 Times in 4,024 Posts
    Shouldn't have "cut" the eggs, especially before any pip on their own first, but personally cutting eggs is not something I favor in any event. For one thing,
    the "goo" in the egg can dry out & trap the snakes, for another opening the eggs exposes them to mold/bacteria/all sorts of pathogens in such a warm & moist
    environment. Also tapping the snakes to get a reaction can cause them to tangle up inside the eggs. Hard to tell you what went (or is still going?) wrong with
    these but nature gave snakes an "egg tooth" for a reason...to open their own eggs when the time is actually right. Sorry...
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 07-08-2019 at 10:51 PM.
    Many friends in low places...

  3. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Bogertophis For This Useful Post:

    Craiga 01453 (07-09-2019),Deborah (07-08-2019),GoingPostal (07-09-2019),Jaust (07-08-2019),John1982 (07-09-2019),Lord Sorril (07-09-2019),Mirakuru (07-11-2019)

  4. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-22-2017
    Location
    Budapest, Hungary
    Posts
    43
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked 28 Times in 18 Posts

    Re: Entire Clutch of 7 Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaust View Post
    Ill start this off by saying this was my first year attempting to breed BPs. Lets start from the beginning.

    Back in November I paired my BPs and saw multiple locks. I continued to breed them every 5-7 days for about a month before I noticed the female swelling. I assumed she was either ovulating or gravid and stopped the pairing. Come December this girl started to actually shrink down again so I assumed she reabsorbed the eggs (before this she had gone off food, wrapped her water bowl, rested on her sides). After I got her eating again, I decided to pair the two and yet again, I saw a lock. This time I only put them together 2 times, and decided to call it quits. Finally she sheds and I anxiously await the "post shed clutch" but it doesn't come... one week, two, three, and finally after a month of waiting post shed I decided she didn't take and i'll have to try again next year. This was about the 1st of February that I decided all was lost. Business as usual, she was eating like before and looking plump but not PLUMP. Finally I go to clean their cages on the 9th of May and don't notice anything out of the ordinary. On the 11th when I look again, there is a pile of eggs. Obviously I freak out, rapidly get my incubator up to temps, and place the eggs in a Tupperware with some saturated vermiculite underneath one of those white plastic egg trey light things... (IDK how to explain it, but this site suggested them, they have little squares and allow the eggs to be suspended over the water) ... Unfortunately the eggs must have been laid shortly after I checked the cages on the 9th because 1 was extremely desiccated and an almost instant write off (eventually it molded and was removed), 3 were very desiccated, 2 were slightly desiccated, and finally 2 were perfectly oval and plump going into the incubator.

    Unfortunately the one egg molded over, but was stuck to 4 others and I decided to keep it in there for fear of ripping the others. The other 4 dented ones never popped out, and I was concerned they were dead however there were veins in all 6 remaining eggs, so I kept them all incubating. I watched them very closely, temp ranges from 88F to 90F, popped the top 2 times (once at the end of May and once in the middle of June). Humidity wasn't an issue because there was standing water under the vermiculite, however I didn't have a gauge inside the box itself telling me how humid it was so hey I guess it could have been an issue? (re-reading and just to clarify, the eggs were on two layers of this egg sheet, and never once came in contact with the vermiculite or water)

    Finally we get to the 6th of July, 55 days after the 11th when I collected the eggs from mama. Though it was my first time, I was sure I could cut the eggs and have a peek at whether I had 6 new babies, or only 2. I was very careful and cut a 1in "V" without nicking any of the blood vessels. Lo and behold I somehow had 6 formed babies, though I couldn't get a very good look at them just a little patch of pattern. I touched them very lightly with my medical scissors and they all gave that little twitch. I'm on cloud nine. Well, the 7th comes around and I don't see any little heads poking out... Then this morning I open the box and get a nasty smell of rot, which I attribute to the egg I had removed just 2 days ago and proceed to look in the little V flaps I had made just 48 hours earlier. Nothing has changed, however there is now a green snot (srry, but that's what it looks like) that's beginning to reseal the eggs. They haven't moved, they aren't moving currently and I'm completely at a loss of what I should do. They're still in the incubator, just as they were before.

    I'm not sure how pictures will help, but if you need them I can probably figure out how to post them.. If anyone had any advice or information on what went wrong or what I should do going forward, I would appreciate it.
    I had a similar situation last year. Too much humidity killed the eggs. This year I kept exact weight/water ratio, no molded eggs and last 10 days opening the tub for air change.
    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...9&share_type=t

    Tapatalkkal küldve az én H60-L04 eszközömről

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Cybred For This Useful Post:

    Jaust (07-08-2019)

  6. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-17-2015
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    48
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
    Images: 1

    Re: Entire Clutch of 7 Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cybred View Post
    I had a similar situation last year. Too much humidity killed the eggs. This year I kept exact weight/water ratio, no molded eggs and last 10 days opening the tub for air change.
    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...9&share_type=t

    Tapatalkkal küldve az én H60-L04 eszközömről

    Okay, maybe pictures would help, because the desiccated eggs are only "half full" of snake, and even the plump ones aren't even close to the size of those. Maybe They died early on, and the movement I saw was in my head? Even still I'm reluctant to pull them out of the eggs..

  7. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-17-2015
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    48
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
    Images: 1

    Re: Entire Clutch of 7 Dead?

    Well good and bad news I guess.
    Good news is I don't believe cutting the eggs was the cause of their deaths. Bad news is I believe they were dead for a long time.

    I opened up the eggs today and unfortunately found 6 underdeveloped tiny babies.. none of them were longer than maybe 3.5in.

    Anyone have any suggestions on why they passed? Could it have been the molding egg in the tub with them, or is it more realistic that they drowned/suffocated?

  8. #6
    Registered User Bogertophis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-28-2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    8,141
    Thanks
    11,277
    Thanked 6,304 Times in 4,024 Posts
    In my experience with snake eggs, good eggs don't mold...bad ones do. Typically mold doesn't kill eggs, mold moves in when they're already goners.

    Why would you think they drowned/suffocated? If they were dead for a long time, I'm surprised your nose didn't announce it.

    Anyway, sorry for the sad outcome, better luck next time.
    Many friends in low places...

  9. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    08-17-2015
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    48
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
    Images: 1

    Re: Entire Clutch of 7 Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bogertophis View Post
    In my experience with snake eggs, good eggs don't mold...bad ones do. Typically mold doesn't kill eggs, mold moves in when they're already goners.

    Why would you think they drowned/suffocated? If they were dead for a long time, I'm surprised your nose didn't announce it.

    Anyway, sorry for the sad outcome, better luck next time.
    There was one that was a goner from the very start that got pretty gross over time. It didn't seem to be hurting the other eggs, so I left it in there until I cut the eggs on the 6th. (Didn't want to risk tearing the good eggs that it was stuck to) None of the other eggs molded, but the smell was ALWAYS present because of that one goner. I cant imagine the moldy egg hurt the good ones, I'm just looking for answers as to why my clutch died so early on. I plan on breeding next year, and don't want to repeat this whole ordeal.

    Takeaways from this are check daily after I pair, even if it takes months. Separate all the eggs before putting them in the box. Maybe try a different method? I plan on having 3 clutches next year, so maybe experiment with some other suggestions. Also, I'm trashing my incubator and making a new one. The only thing that makes sense is that the temps varied too much to the point of killing the eggs. I had a separate thermometer in the incubator, but I really could only check it in the mornings and nights. I plan on gutting an old fridge, filling it with heat tape/a fan, and connecting it to a Herpstat.

  10. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    05-08-2018
    Posts
    14
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts

    Re: Entire Clutch of 7 Dead?

    Sorry to hear about this sad outcome. I had picked up a pair of adult Burms many years ago. The adult female had all the indications of a respiratory infection and I treated her with antibiotics...I think it was Baytril, perhaps. Did not realize she was gravid and the seller did not mention to me that he had been trying to breed them. Anyway...she got over the respiratory infection and I came out one day and found her wrapped around 60+ eggs. Was the first time I ever had a snake lay eggs and I was ecstatic. Sadly, none of them hatched. They began to form mold and I came to the realization that none were viable. After talking to the vet, realized that antibiotics can have bad implications for a litter/clutch of snakes.

    Hope the next time will turn out much better for you and the python.
    XPLSV
    _______

    1.1 Pokigron Surninam, Rio Bravo line

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to XPLSV For This Useful Post:

    Bogertophis (07-11-2019)

  12. #9
    Registered User Bogertophis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-28-2018
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    8,141
    Thanks
    11,277
    Thanked 6,304 Times in 4,024 Posts

    Re: Entire Clutch of 7 Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaust View Post
    There was one that was a goner from the very start that got pretty gross over time. It didn't seem to be hurting the other eggs, so I left it in there until I cut the eggs on the 6th. (Didn't want to risk tearing the good eggs that it was stuck to) None of the other eggs molded, but the smell was ALWAYS present because of that one goner. I cant imagine the moldy egg hurt the good ones, I'm just looking for answers as to why my clutch died so early on. I plan on breeding next year, and don't want to repeat this whole ordeal.

    Takeaways from this are check daily after I pair, even if it takes months. Separate all the eggs before putting them in the box. Maybe try a different method? I plan on having 3 clutches next year, so maybe experiment with some other suggestions. Also, I'm trashing my incubator and making a new one. The only thing that makes sense is that the temps varied too much to the point of killing the eggs. I had a separate thermometer in the incubator, but I really could only check it in the mornings and nights. I plan on gutting an old fridge, filling it with heat tape/a fan, and connecting it to a Herpstat.
    There's no way to be sure why they died: could have been genetic ("lethal genes"...just a bad combination), or maybe the temp. fluctuations as you suspect.

    I've always favored separating eggs soon after they're laid, so any bad ones are easily removed. Even if mold doesn't spread to good eggs, the smell of a bad egg will draw flies to invade, and THEY can ruin the good eggs, so IMO separation is preferable...IF you do it carefully. Freshly laid eggs have some moisture & separate much easier, but when they dry out too much it's much harder. Don't just pull eggs apart, ever: you have to keep them upright (as laid, never rolled over) then gently & SLIGHTLY roll them back & forth to make them let go of each other. Watch closely- drop of water on the point of contact will help them loosen. Take your time doing this...I've never lost eggs that I've separated this way.
    Last edited by Bogertophis; 07-11-2019 at 01:39 PM.
    Many friends in low places...

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Bogertophis For This Useful Post:

    Burticus (07-11-2019)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.1