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  1. #11
    bcr229's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts???? Is breeding mice worth it in my situation???

    Quote Originally Posted by Craiga 01453 View Post
    I wouldn't even know where to start looking for "non-typical" prey items.
    I've had the best luck on the Facebook groups for local farmers who raise chickens or rabbits for meat. They are a lot more pragmatic about the circle of life than the folks who breed rabbits strictly for pets or show.

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  3. #12
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    Re: Thoughts???? Is breeding mice worth it in my situation???

    Quote Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal View Post
    I'd second the lab cages as easiest, and for your needs, just 2 is probably plenty. (1 for the colony, and 1 for grow outs or to pull the Male out if you start getting overrun with babies.)

    Even when I had just 1.2 going, I was getting plenty for about 6 or 7 snakes taking mice. Luckily adult mice will never really outgrow your needs. Just be sure to freeze off your males at weaning and raise up solely females for the live feeders or you will get deaths from male dominance fighting.

    But I don't recommend getting the mice size lab cages. The rat size ones have the same bar spacing (1/4") and are able to house a 1.3 colony without getting nearly as smelly. The mice ones are just very small and once you have hoppers on top of even 1.1 adults, you have to clean at least 2x weekly. (Sizes I'm referring to are for the 2 off of RBI, not sure of any others)

    I'd recommend using primarily the horse stall pine pellets with a handful or two of kiln dried pine shavings for them to make nests (or sub for Aspen if you don't mind the cost). I only have the 1 mouse colony, but I've only had to clean it weekly. The pellets tend to powderize as they get soiled and is good for visually telling the mess and also absorb smell very well. It still has some smell, but in a ventilated room it isn't bad; not likely to be worse than ferrets from how I've heard it described.

    A 40lb bag of the pellets is like $6 at tractor supply co and the big pine shavings are about the same. I've yet to run out of either after having 2 mouse cages to clean weekly in about 3 or 4 months now. Almost to a new bag of pellets, but still have quite a bit of pine left.

    Food is also important to consider for pricing, but I can get mazuri 6F locally for cheaper than most due to proximity to one of their lab supply locations, but Doggy Bag (also at TSC, $14/40lb bag) has similar ingredients and stays on the bars nicely. It is an awful dog food, but mice don't require their protein to be from animal meat the way dogs do and it is otherwise pretty effective for them. For cost, I mostly feed the mice doggy bag, and my rats get the 6F, but I give the mice some 6F on occasion for variety and to balance out in case there is a deficiency somewhere.

    With your live prices, you'd almost certainly be saving money to breed your own. And you could offer excess adults for sale live or frozen locally and cover costs some or entirely if the prices you have been paying are the only available ones currently.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Awesome info!!! Thanks so much!!!

  4. #13
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    Re: Thoughts???? Is breeding mice worth it in my situation???

    I raised mice for a short while. It is a lot cheaper than buy live mice. The feed was pretty cheap I thought. I used my paper shredder to make substrate from paper. You can buy the mice from Petco divided into female and male. I would get a few females and maybe one male and take him out after he gets some of the females impregnated. It will be a lot cheaper and more convenient for you. What turned me off was the smell. I noticed that petco has vacuum tubes that pull the smell out of the store. If you can handle the smell, you and your snakes will be happy, happy.
    I used a 20 gal. glass and had no problem. They didn't bite the silicone in mine as long as you give them chew sticks, which are also pretty cheap. And you will need the little plastic homes they snuggle in. And maybe an activity wheel they can run or play on.

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  6. #14
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    When I had a lot more snakes to feed (for many years in CA), I ended up with enough surplus rodents to supply others & ended up with a profitable rodent business
    that supported the snakes. But that was labor-intensive, let me tell you. I'm surprised you haven't found anyone near you that's into snakes & already raises
    their own to buy a few 'live' from, but hey, maybe you'll be "that one"? As far as cost effectiveness, it mostly depends on local availability of food & bedding, with
    larger population centers usually being cheaper. Raising only a few mice, it costs more to buy small bags of lab pellets than it does to get the 40-50 lbs, & if it takes
    too long to use it up, you may find that weevils have beaten the mice to it. But one way or another, if your pet needs some live, you gotta do what you gotta do...

    I agree with using somewhat bigger cages for the mice, & they do best (IMO) as a trio of 1.2. Not all brands of lab cages have the same bar-spacing for rat or mouse
    cages, so check first. I use mini-flake ("easy pick") kiln dried wood chips, large bales, for bedding. Now that I only have a small colony, most of the used wood
    chips "disappear" into my lawn/garden. ("mouse fertilizer"...who knew?)
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  8. #15
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    Re: Thoughts???? Is breeding mice worth it in my situation???

    Quote Originally Posted by ballpythonsrock2 View Post
    I raised mice for a short while. It is a lot cheaper than buy live mice. The feed was pretty cheap I thought. I used my paper shredder to make substrate from paper. You can buy the mice from Petco divided into female and male. I would get a few females and maybe one male and take him out after he gets some of the females impregnated. It will be a lot cheaper and more convenient for you. What turned me off was the smell. I noticed that petco has vacuum tubes that pull the smell out of the store. If you can handle the smell, you and your snakes will be happy, happy.
    I used a 20 gal. glass and had no problem. They didn't bite the silicone in mine as long as you give them chew sticks, which are also pretty cheap. And you will need the little plastic homes they snuggle in. And maybe an activity wheel they can run or play on.
    I would be extremely hesitant to include a wheel in a feeder mouse enclosure. Generally, they have plenty to do for stimulation with their offspring and chewables that it isn't needed. Additionally, I've seen some pretty gnarly posts resulting from the use of them in the feeder groups I'm in.

    Some mice are obsessive and will run nonstop to the point of neglecting to feed babies. Others try and nest beneath wheels and can catch and throw babies across the cage when they run (more death).

    Using one may work for some, but it seems too risky to me. Not to mention nowhere near enough room in the lab style caging for typical wheels.

    Your smell issue was likely exacerbated by using an aquarium. Both rats and mice have high levels of ammonia in their urine and it tends to remain heavier than air and stay put at the bottom of the tank compared to shorter tubs. The lower height let's air across the top lift it enough for some to escape and dissipate intk a larger air volume whereas it all tends to stay inside of an aquarium. Also, while rats are more susceptible to RI from the lack of sifficient ventilation taller aquariums have (mostly anything over 6-8"), mice can be effected as well. If the smell is horrible to a human, it is far worse for them and the bigger consequence is from breathing the ammonia that causes the smell. Most feeder breeders strongly advise against glass for mice and rats because of that.

    Also, if there are any feeder or pet line breeders anywhere near you, it is well worth even a 2 hour one-time drive to get pet quality animals. Just because some mice are pet store animals does not make then good pets. Mice from pet stores tend to be bitey, chew plastic (typically not possible with lab cages as those are designed without any edges to grip, mostly an issue for DIY tubs), and many are predisposed to killing their litters or cage mates inexplicably when establishing the colony.

    I've been lucky my mice are only super skittish and not biters or chewers or baby munchers. Mice can be very tricky to get breeding from general pet store lines, though some areas seem to be much worse than others.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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  10. #16
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    Re: Thoughts???? Is breeding mice worth it in my situation???

    Quote Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal View Post
    I would be extremely hesitant to include a wheel in a feeder mouse enclosure. Generally, they have plenty to do for stimulation with their offspring and chewables that it isn't needed. Additionally, I've seen some pretty gnarly posts resulting from the use of them in the feeder groups I'm in.

    Some mice are obsessive and will run nonstop to the point of neglecting to feed babies. Others try and nest beneath wheels and can catch and throw babies across the cage when they run (more death).

    Using one may work for some, but it seems too risky to me. Not to mention nowhere near enough room in the lab style caging for typical wheels...
    I was going to say the same thing...running on wheels seems to be addicting, to where a mom with nursing babies will hop into the wheel & let the babies go flying!

    And also, when I first got into breeding mice & got a few from a local pet store, they never did breed... I sorta wondered what the source did to them (to make sure
    they had no competition for selling mice?) but after that, I got some stock from other sources, a mixture of fancy mice that have done well ever since (other than the
    few silkies/satins, which I attribute to them being more inbred). The first ones were white mice btw, & I've had very few white mice over the years that are as prolific as
    the other varieties.
    Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.
    Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983)

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  12. #17
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    Re: Thoughts???? Is breeding mice worth it in my situation???

    My Blood has issues with Frozen as well. The pet store owner told me sometimes alternating dead and live will help to get them on F/T he said feed live then feed frozen until he wont eat.. then go live again, and then go frozen till he wont eat. He said that over time you should be able to switch him.

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  14. #18
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    Re: Thoughts???? Is breeding mice worth it in my situation???

    Quote Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal View Post
    I would be extremely hesitant to include a wheel in a feeder mouse enclosure. Generally, they have plenty to do for stimulation with their offspring and chewables that it isn't needed. Additionally, I've seen some pretty gnarly posts resulting from the use of them in the feeder groups I'm in.

    Some mice are obsessive and will run nonstop to the point of neglecting to feed babies. Others try and nest beneath wheels and can catch and throw babies across the cage when they run (more death).

    Using one may work for some, but it seems too risky to me. Not to mention nowhere near enough room in the lab style caging for typical wheels.

    Your smell issue was likely exacerbated by using an aquarium. Both rats and mice have high levels of ammonia in their urine and it tends to remain heavier than air and stay put at the bottom of the tank compared to shorter tubs. The lower height let's air across the top lift it enough for some to escape and dissipate intk a larger air volume whereas it all tends to stay inside of an aquarium. Also, while rats are more susceptible to RI from the lack of sifficient ventilation taller aquariums have (mostly anything over 6-8"), mice can be effected as well. If the smell is horrible to a human, it is far worse for them and the bigger consequence is from breathing the ammonia that causes the smell. Most feeder breeders strongly advise against glass for mice and rats because of that.

    Also, if there are any feeder or pet line breeders anywhere near you, it is well worth even a 2 hour one-time drive to get pet quality animals. Just because some mice are pet store animals does not make then good pets. Mice from pet stores tend to be bitey, chew plastic (typically not possible with lab cages as those are designed without any edges to grip, mostly an issue for DIY tubs), and many are predisposed to killing their litters or cage mates inexplicably when establishing the colony.

    I've been lucky my mice are only super skittish and not biters or chewers or baby munchers. Mice can be very tricky to get breeding from general pet store lines, though some areas seem to be much worse than others.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Thank You didn't realize these things. I didn't do it very long. I humbly exit. Sometime you can teach an old dog new tricks. That's why I come here, that is to learn too. I do think the OP should go for it though, and I want to encourage him. glad he has some of you who have had more knowledge and or experience that can get him going right if he decides to try it.

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  16. #19
    Telling it like it is! Stewart_Reptiles's Avatar
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    Honestly with the size of your collection if it was me I would concentrate my effort in switching to F/T so afterward you can buy bulk online and and in the meantime try to find an cheaper source (CL, reptile specialty stores etc).

    Breeding is not pleasant it does smell and it is extra work and if you plan to keep live adult mice around until eaten the smell and the cost will increase.

    I do breed mice however most are euthanized and froze before adulthood (unless hold back breeders).
    Deborah Stewart


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  18. #20
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    Re: Thoughts???? Is breeding mice worth it in my situation???

    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
    Honestly with the size of your collection if it was me I would concentrate my effort in switching to F/T so afterward you can buy bulk online and and in the meantime try to find an cheaper source (CL, reptile specialty stores etc).

    Breeding is not pleasant it does smell and it is extra work and if you plan to keep live adult mice around until eaten the smell and the cost will increase.

    I do breed mice however most are euthanized and froze before adulthood (unless hold back breeders).
    Yeah, I'm really kinda up in the air here. Juice is just a PAIN with eating F/T reliably. Otherwise breeding mice wouldn't even be on my radar.
    I'll be weighing out pros/cons before making a decision.

    Thanks for your thoughts! I always appreciate your guidance.
    Last edited by Craiga 01453; 06-18-2019 at 11:08 AM.

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