Have you ever given up on a hatchling who won't eat?

[Godzilla78]

If your willing to let your feeder thaw partially if not completely above the enclosure where your snake can smell them you will find a BIG difference in getting them to eat f/t. Mine now responds in such a way that by the time I have thawed ( 2 - 2 1/2 hrs.) and then heated it, she's practically coming out the top trap door waiting to eat.

Yes. I do that. The problem is I am a breeder and have over 40 ball pythons, and many are great eaters of thawed, but many are not!

[bcr229]

I haven't had to assist feed neonate ball pythons but I have with BRB's. The longest was just over a year; she was from a weak premature litter where only two survived and there were lots of stills and slugs. The larger of the two was assist fed a few times, the smaller had absorbed very little yolk and was about half the size of a healthy neonate.

They were actually too small for even a mouse pinky so I started them on a hind leg cut from a f/t mouse hopper. That was fairly easy to feed since I would bend the leg at the hock joint and insert that into the snake's mouth. The baby couldn't spit it out easily since the leg would open up and get stuck in the jaws behind the teeth. Once the neonates got a little bigger I would chain a whole prey feeder such as a mouse pinky, fuzzy, etc. behind the hind leg. With practice I could get the process done in under five minutes.

[Gemini Pythons]

Thank you for all the helpful suggestions! A few more question were asked, so i'll answer those:

So, things I didn't see in your list that would be worth trying:
1. Live hopper mouse - We did try a live hopper as well (technically they were a fuzzy based on weight, but we picked them as they were really just a runty hopper- eyes open, more active). It didn't work and actually just stressed the baby out (trying to escape their tub)
2. Live hopper mouse or fuzzy rat scented with ASF - This is a great suggestion and we'll try it out!
3. Live ASF - We are unable to get live ASF in our area

Also might help someone with more experience to have more details of your rack and tubs.
- What size tubs? (Dimensions or common model i.e. V-18, 6qt, etc.) We have tried VE108-8 and Iris MCB-SS shoebox. Currently using a VE 108-8 as it is darker and more snug. No behaviour observed that would indicate tub size is a stress factor.
- Clear or opaque? Semi-opaque (we can see blurry movement or an outline in there if a snake at the front, but otherwise nothing)
- 1 hide or 2 hides? 2 hides
- Substrate? (Paper towels or something they can burrow into?) We have tried paper towels and coconut bedding

What else is in the room as far as smell goes? Any dogs/cats, any non-feeder rodents (like gerbils?) that this one may be waiting for, any larger lizards or other potentially intimidating smells, any odd chemicals used in the area like lysol wipes on non-reptile furniture or anything like that. None. We have a dog and cat, but they are not allowed in the room the baby is in. We disinfect with F10

I haven't worked with newborns as of yet, but I do have one finicky eater and when she does take f/t for me, I cannot be at all visible in the room (even 8 ft away not moving), it must be very dark, and if I move her tub closed or at all unless it is mid-strike she will drop her meal and refuse to eat that week. (She will take live and when it is struggling still, I can slide the tub closed and leave the room before she notices. If she sees me through the tub via heat she will also drop and refuse to feed) We have tried to minimize our presence as much as possible during feeding (whenever possible we close the tub and leave the room. The room is dark. Interestingly, the baby has never been fearful of us. It was a shock that they have been such a bad eater. They were very calm and not fearful from the get-go (no hiding if they saw us, in times we've had to handle them, they behave as i would hope a snake does- calm and curious, but not trying to get away or balled up)

On that thought, have you attempting being around a corner from the tub so as to be not visible? Or considered that the movement of the tub may be startling this one out of feeding mode? And what time of day/brightness in the room do you feed? Yes,we have. We have also tried feeding at basically every time of day. Morning, noon, afternoon, evening, night, middle of the night. We feed all of our snakes after 10pm regularly.

[Gemini Pythons]

I haven't had to assist feed neonate ball pythons but I have with BRB's. The longest was just over a year; she was from a weak premature litter where only two survived and there were lots of stills and slugs. The larger of the two was assist fed a few times, the smaller had absorbed very little yolk and was about half the size of a healthy neonate.

Wow, when she finally snagged you must have been over the moon!! Thank you!! We'll be doing the same then if it's what the baby needs! :-)

[Gemini Pythons]

I would try a small live hopper mouse. Put it in the enclosure with complete darkness in the room and in the enclosure. Then when you can't see a thing get to the side wheres your snake can't see you and just listen and wait. If you hear the mouse squeal then you will know it worked. Wait a bit for it, if there is no squeal then turn on the lights and check on things. I would give it a fair chance though first. Some snakes would rather eat in complete darkness, you can't see a thing darkness. Letting the smell of the feeder be in the room beforehand is a great help.

We have done this. We got a runty hopper (so fuzzy sized, but with open eyes and much more movement) and it TERRIFIED the hatchling. They're normally quite chill (they aren't shy around us and are normally quite curious and alert, but never frantic). I left the mouse in and waited for the tell tale squeaks. Nothing. I gave it an hour, checked, and the hatchling was at the front of their tub desperately trying to escape. We've stuck to fuzzies since. The hatchling is quite small (not a runt, but a little below average size) so hopper would be too big.

[Gemini Pythons]

I agree...feed live if you need to get a neonate/hatchling going...that's how nature programmed them.

Some snakes are still too timid & what has worked for me is to put a larger & heavy flat-bottomed pet bowl in the cage...something with sides that are 2.5"-3" deep,
that the live mouse/or rat crawler can't escape from. Leave this in dark cage overnight...many snakes feel braver if they can get a little above the prey to pounce on
them, as they can from the edge of this bowl (without tipping over the bowl).

Twice when trying to feed fuzzies we put them in a bowl as you described, and we have left overnight once. The hatchling seemed to fear a hopper when we put one in, but once we found him and the fuzzy both curled up together on the hot side of the enclosure, looking pleased as can be. It seems like he just isn't recognizing the mice as prey, but no scenting we've done has changed this.

[Bogertophis]

Twice when trying to feed fuzzies we put them in a bowl as you described, and we have left overnight once. The hatchling seemed to fear a hopper when we put one in, but once we found him and the fuzzy both curled up together on the hot side of the enclosure, looking pleased as can be. It seems like he just isn't recognizing the mice as prey, but no scenting we've done has changed this.

And have you tried scenting with hamsters or gerbils? Many BPs really like those too, & easier to come by (usually) than ASF's.

[bcr229]

Wow, when she finally snagged you must have been over the moon!! Thank you!! We'll be doing the same then if it's what the baby needs! :-)

Even now she still won't feed off tongs. I have to leave the feeder at the entrance to her hide, close up the tub, walk away, and check back in an hour. I've never actually seen her strike, wrap, or eat yet.

[Gemini Pythons]

And have you tried scenting with hamsters or gerbils? Many BPs really like those too, & easier to come by (usually) than ASF's.

We haven't, and great idea! We did some talking today with local friends, and they tipped us off to a place in the country that does delivery once a month to our city and sometimes has live ASF. So hopefully we'll be able to try live ASF soon!!

[pretends2bnormal]

And have you tried scenting with hamsters or gerbils? Many BPs really like those too, & easier to come by (usually) than ASF's.

Agreed. I have pet gerbils and scenting with used bedding has worked to convert 2 of my stubborn live eaters to frozen and inexplicably a mouser to regular rats with only 1 or 2 scented meals.

I know some find gerbils to be a bad plan for scenting, but certainly won't hurt if all else has not worked.

I would probably try scenting with thawed ASF first since it is their more typical wild prey. Even a thawed ASF if thawed dry should have enough smell for it. If live are hard to come by, you definitely don't want to get a baby that only takes them live if you can't regularly source them.

When scenting I've always seen to rub it on the back of a feeder, but I notice my snakes like to check the privates when unsure of if it is food or not, so I'd probably try an all-over scenting or focus on where their scent glands would be if possible. For added effect, blow drying the asf in the room and scenting that strongly like asf before offering the disguised the fuzzy rat may get a better result too.

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