Help me decide on a new snake! :)

[Bogertophis]

How fast do they grow? Also, I keep my room in the mid-high 70's. Would this be fine for a gopher/bull snake?

Fairly fast...the hatchlings themselves can be about 18-20", with a sturdy build. They do eat often too. Your room temp. would be fine, just need a UTH under a portion (about 1/8th) of the cage floor. When I kept & raised bull/gopher snakes, I lived in the desert & my house ranged from 70-83* (w/ HVAC that kicked on below or above that.) These are great hissers, btw...mostly bluff that they outgrow, but it's fun while it lasts. They're not pansies...

[Danya]

Alright, thanks for the info! Haven't heard of Korean rat snakes. What are they like? How big do they get? Thanks.

[pretends2bnormal]

The bull and gopher snake seem like that ideal choice! I'll definitely look into them. Do they have any downsides that I should know about as a new keeper? Oh, and how large of an enclosure do you think an adult gopher/bull snake would need? Thanks.

Mine is a juvie, and for now my plan is to keep her in a 4x2 PVC cage (I've already got the cage), although if she starts having any rubbing or pushing issues when she grows, I can upgrade that later on. Unless she's especially large, I don't think it will be an issue.

I can't really think of any downside to them like BPs have (some finicky feeding/winter fasting). They're not worried about heat on prey, take F/T easy.. I guess juveniles could be squirmy or faster than you're used to and adults even will be more active to handle than a BP, but nothing all that hard to deal with. If there's anywhere around with a larger ratsnake, corn snake, or colubrid, handling one of those will give you a general idea of the activity level of one. I find it refreshing after handling the slower snakes I've got.

Something neat though is that they have pretty heavily keeled scales which makes for a really different texture.

For a 3rd option to consider as a more advanced and possibly bitey-er python species, carpet pythons can be good option too. Smaller species will stay below 6' (jungles and IJs, maybe Darwins also?). Known as nippy babies, but similarly most grow out of it. An active, semi-arboreal python, they're definitely different and impressive for a 2nd snake. Care is very similar to a BP for heat and humidity, you must want more height and perching options. They don't tend to he fussy eaters and if it is above room temp, they have no problem taking food frozen thaw instead of needing life-like temps like most BPs. I've got a male coastal juvie, almost a yearling now, that is calm as can be, but coastals will probably exceed your 6' limit as adults.

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[Danya]

Thanks for the info on the gophers!

I've always really liked carpets but their size kind of steered me away from them. I've heard of the females reaching 10 feet. I didn't know that the different subspecies had such a large drop in size. Do females get larger than males like in most pythons? Also, is it true that the young carpets have really weak tail bones like GTP's? You really made me want a carpet. Thanks!

[Bogertophis]

Alright, thanks for the info! Haven't heard of Korean rat snakes. What are they like? How big do they get? Thanks.

Mine is full grown, currently about 10 years old. They get about 5-6', somewhat stocky build but more slender than a bull snake. Personality is more like a racer than a
rat snake...some are calmer than others, but really don't like to be handled & will bite if pushed too far. They're dark greenish on the body, with yellow chin & underside,
but very shy. I prefer snakes that take food from tongs, with these, it's more like "leave my food, turn out the light & go AWAY, lady!" hahahaha! They do take f/t, but
just aren't sociable snakes.

Texas rat snakes also tend to be on the feisty side from all I've read. That's about the only U.S. rat snake I haven't kept. Everglades rat snakes are really pretty (they start off with brownish blotches but gradually turn orange as they grow...very pretty, yellow chin & orange eyes too. Can be fairly feisty too, but manageable pets...I've raised many of them. I currently have yellow (Florida) rat snakes...the males are now about 7' while the females are about 5'....and they're about 12 years old att. They act feisty when first approached, but don't bite & settle down and handle quite well...they're good pets, actually (don't know why so many ppl are afraid of them? but they can be good bluffers too, lol) In fact, I've taken my big males to public meet & greets for years now, they always behave very well with everyone. (they're 'raised right' )

[Bogertophis]

So with all these choices, you might have to get several snakes? Truth is, there ARE lots of good choices for the description you gave.

[pretends2bnormal]

Thanks for the info on the gophers!

I've always really liked carpets but their size kind of steered me away from them. I've heard of the females reaching 10 feet. I didn't know that the different subspecies had such a large drop in size. Do females get larger than males like in most pythons? Also, is it true that the young carpets have really weak tail bones like GTP's? You really made me want a carpet. Thanks!

I think the 10' ones are pretty exclusive to one end of the coastal range and are females. Most of the US CBB population is not from that end of their range, so it is common for US females to never exceed 8 or 9' and 7 or 8' on males. And the 9'/8' ones are exceptionally large. At least this is what I've been told by people who work with them.

But yeah, I think jungles typically max around 6'.

I don't see much on sex dimorphism on the other species, mostly in coastals, but there probably is some. A male jungle would probably stay well within that 6' size, but most of my research stayed on coastals, so definitely look at that yourself.

They definitely don't have particularly fragile tails. They're slender, so of course don't grab them tightly or pick up by it (like any snake really), but they're handle-able as babies. Unlike GTPs, they're only semi-arboreal.

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[Danya]

Thanks for the info! I looked up some pictures of the Korean rats, they are really cool. I'd prefer a snake that doesn't have a problem with being handled, but I'll put them on my list.

I've heard of the Everglades rat snakes. They are on the more uncommon species of rat snakes from what I've heard. I'll look into them too.

Thanks!

[Danya]

So many choices, yet I can only chose one.

I'll really look into the jungles and IJ carpets. How large of an enclosure would a full grown jungle/IJ need? Alos, do the juveniles prefer a semi-arboreal, or terrestrial enclosure?

Thanks!

[pretends2bnormal]

So many choices, yet I can only chose one.

I'll really look into the jungles and IJ carpets. How large of an enclosure would a full grown jungle/IJ need? Alos, do the juveniles prefer a semi-arboreal, or terrestrial enclosure?

Thanks!

Youd have to look up enclosure size yourself, ideally L + W = snake length *or bigger
So I imagine a 4x2 footprint is plenty if the max size is 6'. But I'd go for 2-3' of height if possible and give "sky" hides and branches or platforms for them to use. I have a bird ladder in my cage he loves to hunt from in addition to the ceiling mounted hide box.

Juvies will be just as fond of climbing, but as they're smaller it doesn't take a ton of height to give them climbing opportunities. That said, you can go straight to adult enclosure for most carpets without issue. By the time they clear a QT tub, as long as they're feeding, you'll be fine with an adult cage in 99% of cases.

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