Snake choosing to be in 74° F??

[Quarks]

Hi all,

I've only had my BP for a few days and am in the process of perfecting his tank- I'm currently waiting on my CHE thermostat to arrive so I can plug in the lamp without frying him, and the tank has been a little cool during the day with not much of a gradient while we wait. The ambient room and enclosure temp has been between 74-85° F this week, thankfully. The UTE is set up nicely and reading a surface temp on the glass (inside enclosure) of 90-94° F during the day and night. Would like it to stay right at 92° F but it looks like that's about the most consistent temps the Jumpstart is going to give me. (surface temps all taken with temp gun, UTE is controlled via jumpstart thermostat)

My snake was curled up in the warm hide (over hotspot) for the first couple days but now he has been sitting in the hide on the cool side for nearly two days, and the cage temps have been generally on the cooler side of what is acceptable for a BP over all- 74-75 at the moment since it's cooler in the morning. Cage temp hasn't gotten above 86 yet this week. Is this normal for him to be choosing a cool hide when the ambient temps are 74° F??

By the way, the hide on the cool side at the moment is also a humid hide made of moss and wire. I'm going to get him a third hide soon but he only has two secure ones, warm and cool in his tank right now. (though he does occasionally hang out under the habba hut in the middle) The humidity in the tank has been about 60-70% so it should be humid enough but maybe he's dried out from his travels to me, idk. I'm also waiting on a second hygrometer.

He's probably fine but I was wondering if people had any tips on obvious things that would make him reluctant to choose a warm hide when he needs it. I covered the front of the cage with a pillowcase for privacy two days ago but I've also probably been bothering him in the cage while fixing temp probes, taking surface temps, misting, changing water, ect. The only think I can think of is that there's not quite as much clutter in front of the warm hide as the cool hide, but that's because I'm planning on having the CHE near that area and don't want him to be climbing up too close to it.

[royalreilly]

This shouldn't be bad for your snake. As long as it has access to the 90 degree spot, it can pick exactly where it needs to be to regulate its body temp. However a few factors could contribute to your snake unfairly preferring the cold hide.

1) The temps above the UTH are a little bit too warm. I would consider lowering the temp of your uth just a little bit. Getting up to 94 on the inside of the glass is a little high for a BP. You really don't want it to get above 90 right above the uth. I usually have my thermostat set just a few degrees above 90 so that the inside of the glass is right at 90. I think turning down the thermostat like 2 degrees could help a lot. Then the fluctuation would be 88-92 instead of 90-94. A few degrees might not seem like a lot to you, but remember that your little friend is cold blooded and can accurately sense heat through its pit organs.

2) The BP may prefer the shape / texture / etc. of the cool hide to the warm hide. It's often suggested that your warm hide and your cool hide should be identical. That way the snake won't choose a side just because the hide is more comfortable even if they need to be on the other side of the enclosure to regulate their body temp.

If you turn it down a few degrees but the snake still stays in the 74 degree area, that might just be a personal preference of the snake. And the hide thing isn't necessary, it's just a suggestion. My BP's enclosure is also around 75 degrees on the cool end, and he usually picks the cool hide instead of the warm hide even though the hides are identical and the temp of the glass right above the warm hide is right at 90 degrees. Just like us I think every snake has it's own personal preferences

[Bogertophis]

I agree with royalreilly, 94* is too hot! Don't go above 90* for your BP & be sure your temps. are correct & regulated with a reliable (quality) thermostat.
Snakes need & use the temperature options to regulate the speed of digestion...& often going into a shed cycle, they prefer to be cooler.

Also know that snakes usually choose a sense of security over the right temperatures, so if the warm-side hide isn't to his liking, that may also explain his
reluctance to use it. They tend to prefer hides that make them feel snug & safe...not too big, not too tall, & not too big of a doorway. If a hide is too big
for the growing snake to feel comfy inside, you can wad up a paper towel or 2, as needed, to make it more snug.

[fadingdaylight]

First off, I agree with all of the advice offered above. Two things I would like to add though...

What I have noticed with my BP over these first few months is a tendency to remain on the cold side about 60 percent of the time. As it happens, this generally coincides with the hours that I am awake. I get up at 4:30 every morning, and very rarely, I will find him still up goofing off. Typically, he has already relocated to the cold hide by this time, and stays there all day. If I go out and check around midnight, I may find him on the hot side, or just climbing around looking for something to do, more or less.

After meals, he reports directly to the hot hide and remains there for about 12 hours. Otherwise, he is almost always on the cold side during the hours that I am awake to observe him. I know he goes over there, because I find the hide shifted, or substrate out of place, but I rarely actually see him using it.

Second, when was the last feeding? If your BP is hungry, they may spend more time on the cool side to slow down their metabolism. I noticed that, during the very brief hunger strike my BP went on while switching to rats, he remained on the cool side even more than usual. Once a meal was in him, though, it was straight back to the heat.

[Bogertophis]

In the past, when I accidentally fed a prey item (f/t rat) that was larger than usual to my boa, she deliberately slowed down the digestion by remaining on the
cool side, presumably so as not to overwhelm her GI tract. My point is, snakes need to be able to choose...they have their reasons, whether or not they make
sense to us, for what they need at any given time.

[Quarks]

Thank you for the responses! I turned down the UTE thermostat by three degrees and the surface temp on the hotspot (on the glass) has been reading 87-91 now instead. The mossy hide on the cool side might just be more snug and comfy- I was planning to get an identical hide after seeing that same suggestion in another post and it sounds like I should do that soon! I'll stick his current favorite haunt in the middle of the tank instead. (He's got a roomy 40 gal) I'll try putting a little extra moss and maybe a paper towel in the warm hide too for now to make if a bit more comfortable. He's not quite all the way full grown and probably doesn't fill it out completely. (though it's not that big a hide) I should probably inspect it for any sharp edges or rough patches too just in case.

I actually don't know when his last feeding is- I got him from the previous owner half a week ago and he's pretty plump and also shiny from a new shed. A very healthy snake! They advised me to wait a week for him to de-stress and get used to the surroundings before attempting any feeding. He's on day 3 of his week of solitude lol. I've got his rats waiting in the freezer. My guess is that it was at least 7 or 8 days ago since the previous owner was very detail oriented regarding care and would not have chosen to transport him right after a meal.

Sounds like as long as he feels secure with both the hides (and with the hot spot at a more comfortable temp) he'll choose whatever temp he needs! Thanks again for the advice and info, takes a lot of the stress off to know more about BP habits and how to improve the habitat.

[Bogertophis]

Anytime...glad to help. I agree, it's best he settle in for at least a week before trying to feed, & yes, it's always best not to feed a snake right before transport.
Don't worry, he's not gonna "starve". Best if hides are at least similar size, they don't have to be exactly identical. Sounds to me like he's in good hands...

[Valyndris]

Some days my snake asks to come out really bad at night and when I take him out to his room, within 10 minutes he goes in the cave he has in the room (he has the same cave in his enclosure) and likes to chill there. That cave is usually around 74 degrees and the humidity is low as it is just for a few hours when he comes out. I just find it so cute that sometimes he asks so bad to come out just to go hide in his cave, I call those his lazy days. Judging from his behavior going to a colder than recommended spot is normal for a ball python. He does have a heated tent in the room but mostly chooses the cave.

[Quarks]

I have a working CHE installed with a thermostat and wondering about how high I should keep the enclosure temp!

(Link below is to the Post I have about setting up my CHE with an update, some questions + pictures of the CHE setup I rigged today with the Century probe. )
-->Which Thermostat to use with a CHE and how? (+ general Q)



Updates/Questions on Hides, Temps, and Cleaning vs Leaving Snake alone:

The hotspot on the bottom of the tank (in the warm hide) is now always measuring mostly at 89-90, so I'm happy with that. But the dude hasn't moved from his mossy hide on the cool side today, even when I observed temps were only 73-82 deg in the tank, colder than yesterday. Sounds kinda... suspiciously chilly. I think he just likes it more because it's just nicer, softer, and rounder than the Exo Terra cave.

The CHE just got set up a few hours ago, just in time as our local weather temps are forecast to drop a good 5-10 degrees tonight! Ambient temps on the hot side of the enclosure (right now it's night so things are a little cooler) are currently reading around 82-79, and the probe dangling under the CHE reads 84. (warming the CHE slowly to 86 deg and need to double check accuracy of probe so I don't fry my snake accidentally)
Still waiting on my last probe thermometer to ship so I can take ambient temps on the cool side- surface temps on cool side currently read around 80-79 degrees, except for the damp mossy hide itself, which has a surface temp of 76 degrees. (which might have meant it was 73 degrees earlier today)

I'm going to run an experiment in a week or so (or sooner if I have to disturb him to clean out poop before his alone-time is up) where I put the temps back to the 83- 74 degree range and then switch the positions of the two hides. This way I can know for sure if he's choosing it because he wants a weirdly colder temp or if it's because he just likes the moss hide better. Then depending on the results and the feedback here I'll adjust the temps.

If he does like the Moss hide better should I get two of those? I feel like they're going to disintegrate much more quickly and propagate bacteria/be harder to clean vs the Exo Terra Rock cave. I'd rather have two rock caves for Hot-Cool and put the moss hide in the middle. I'm all for getting him stuff he likes but I don't want two moldy unsanitary hides I have to potentially clean several times a week. Or am I just paranoid about the moss getting moldy and covered in poop? Anyone got hygiene experience with moss hides?

I'm honestly expecting him to choose the moss hide regardless of temp -but- If he chooses a colder temp that's in the 74 range no matter what hide is on that side- should I keep my over all enclosure temps 4 degrees colder than the recommended average? The reason they would be colder is because I estimate that I would need to have the hot side at only 84-83 max in order to get the colder side all the way down to 74-75. If this is the case he would still have his 90 deg hotspot over the UTE, even if the hottest ambient temp on the hot side was only 83 degrees. If I did this I would also consider bumping up temperatures during shed, which is something I've heard is good to do. (If this is incorrect information about sheds please tell me)

Improving the Hot hide Rock Cave:
I inspected the Hot hide (rock cave) and found some pokey bits and snapped/sanded them off, (there was a little sharp plaster thing at the top I didn't see before, dammit. Looked him over for scratches but didn't see any) added a paper towel and some soft moss, wet it down a little, put a little more soft substrate down and then placed it back with some more clutter near the entrance for privacy.

Took the moss hide off him today after a few days of no contact so I could check if it needed to be cleaned and there actually were some urates in there that did need to be taken out. He was breathing quickly and was clearly not happy at all; S-shape neck when I reached in next to him to get at his garbage. He didn't touch the Hot hide when the Cool/moss one was on my counter getting inspected/cleaned and then he went back into the Cool/moss one right away after it was placed back in. Should I leave the urates in the hide and only focus on Poop/water bowl change so I don't disturb him further during his first 10 days with me? Can the water bowl be left for two days in a row or does it need to be cleaned every day with little to no exception?

Thanks for all your help guys, I really appreciate it every time I have a question on here

[fadingdaylight]

Eh, I would just clean it up. Some things are worth disturbing, in my opinion. Unfortunately I can't speak on the cleanliness of moss hides, but I can tell you what I have done. Once I realized that the two non-matching hides I had bought from the pet store didn't seem to be what my BP needed, I went to Wal-Mart and bought 2 matching black plastic salsa bowls, came home an used a Dremel to cut doorways in them, then mixed moss into the substrate under each one. This adds a touch of extra humidity into both hides, while making them extremely easy to clean, plus the only cost $1.50 each. Sure, they snake is going to outgrow them, but I've gotten two months out of them so far.