Dropping my feeder in substrate!

[indygunnerguy]

Hello! I'm totally new at this, so please take it easy Ive had my BP for three weeks now, and he/she is a delight! It is too young to tell if it is a boy or a girl so I'm not sure what to say LOL. Anywhoo...


So I need some feeding tips. I tried to feed him/her a F/T fuzzy (what they had been feeding it before), but I kept dropping the dang thing in the coco substrate. So then, I would run to the kitchen, run it under the hot water, and try again only to drop it again another two or three times. After that, I could tell it was stressed so I gave up. I tried again the next day with the same results. I have been reading and it seems that a lot of ppl say it isn't a big deal for them to swallow some shredded substrate so that brought up and idea...So, now it is a week later and I'm ready to try again today. Would it be ok for me to just heat up the fuzzy and then just lay it on the substrate for him/her to take at its leisure? If not, would it be ok for me to set it on something plastic (like a pringles lid or something) and then set it in there for him/her? Any tips would be appreciative.

Also, I did try taking her out of the enclosure and putting her in a plastic tote with the F/T fuzzy and leaving her/him for a couple of hours with no luck either!

[Craiga 01453]

Ok, a few things: first, welcome to the forum and the wonderful world of snake keeping!!

1) assuming you're talking mice fuzzies, they're WAY too small for a BP. BPs eat hoppers right out of the egg for their first few meals, typically only 3-5 meals and quickly move up to small adult mice.

2) are you using feeding tongs? If not, you should be. You'll find an appropriately sized prey item will be easier to hold as well, not much to grab into with fuzzies.

3) I keep a tub of hot water with me while feeding. If the prey item gets too cool I simply dip it in again til it's warm enough.

4) ARE YOU SURE the prey is warm enough when you're offering? The prey item should be around 100°. If you're unsure if you're getting it warm enough use your temp gun to check.

5) don't offer on back to back days. That will just stress the snake and lead to more refusals.
Wait at least 5 days between offerings.

6) you CAN leave the prey item. But I would iffer from tongs first. If the snake doesn't strike, reward the prey, set it and walk away. Some BPs really require privacy when they eat.

7) DEFINITELY don't use a seperate feeding tub. Feeding tubs are old school and proven counter productive over time.
Feeding tubs increase the chance of refusals, increase the chance of regurgitation and increase your chances of being bitten.

So, now that I've tackled what was in your thread, please tell us more about your setup. The more you tell us the better we can help.
There are two major reasons a new snake will refuse food. 1) husbandry and 2) stress.

Starting with husbandry...
- what size and type enclosure?
- how are you heating the enclosure?
- are all heat sources REGULATED BY A THERMOSTAT?
- what are your temps? How and where are you measuring the temps?
- are properly sized hides offered? How many?

Now on to stress...
- are you handling the snake at all? Handling (especially new snakes) stresses the snake. Stress = refusals.
- is the enclosure in a quiet area in the house?


Answering these questions will help us help you, and of course, your new snake

[indygunnerguy]

Oh well, it seems there may be more than one issue then LOL. Thanks for all the great info! So should I not feed her/him the fuzzies? If not, what should I try?

I don't have feeding tongs, so I tried chopsticks The tails is just too small. I will pick up a pair of the tongs this evening before I try again.

I will try the hot water tub. No, it is definitely not 100 degrees. I will try and make sure it is hotter. I don't have a temp gun, is that a problem?

It has been almost a week since I tried to feed him/her so hopefully I will be successful.

If I have to leave the prey in the enclosure, should I set it on a piece of plastic to keep the substrate off? Also, after it thaw the feeder in water, the pouch often leaks making the fuzzy wet. Should I try to dry it off first?

Yeah, the more I read about the separate tub thing, the more I didn't like it...AT ALL! I'm definitely not doing that again

What I have is:

Two hides, one on the hot side, one on the cool side
A heat lamp on top
Heat pad underneath (on same side as lamp)
Shredded coco substrate
A big pool for her/him to soak in/drink from
20 gallon tank

I do not have a thermostat controlling my heat pad/lamp. I have a thermometer in the enclosure, and it pretty much stays right at 80 degrees at all times.

It is in the corner of the living room, on top of a table, so no one really bothers her. Except sometimes the dog likes to take a peek

The hides that came with my tank kit were super small so I went out and bought bigger ones. A pic of the setup is in my gallery if you would like to take a look along with a couple pics of my new baby Let me know if they are still too small.

I have only had her/him out twice since I purchased it. I have read that I am not supposed to have it out but only a couple of times per week. Is that correct?

[reptilemom25]

So, a couple of things may be at play here.

1. YOU MUST get a thermostat. It is too risky to leave heat sources unregulated. a proportional is best from someone like herpstat or vivarium electronics. @ heat sources means either 2 thermostats or one capable of running 2 things. If those are not in the cards right now then Jumpsart thermostats sold on Amazon would be a good alternative until you can buy more expensive ones.

2. You need 2 IDENTICAL hides, just big enough for your snake to squeeze into. Too much space in the hide and they don't feel secure. They WILL choose security over proper temp. regulation.

3. What is your humidity like? It looks like you have an open top glass tank, and those are very difficult to get to hold humidity. you may need to cover part to most of the lid to get the humidity up to 50-60%. If humidity is too low, you end up with shedding issues.

4. Handling. Don't handle again until he has eaten 3 times in a row. Handling can lead to stress and refusal.

Any or all of these issues could lead to food refusals. Next time you offer, I would definitely use tongs and be patient. You may have to reheat and offer again a couple of times to get him to take it. You can use a hairdryer to re warm. 10-15 seconds full blast right on the nose of the rodent.

ETA: I just noticed the stick on thermometer in your setup. Those are junk and horribly inaccurate. You want a digital thermometer or atemp gun.

[indygunnerguy]

Hello! Thank you, how do you test for humidity? I presume there is some sort of electronic means of doing this?

Also, I shave my head so I have no hair dryer LOL. Is there another way to get the feeder up to temp? Also, what do you think about the fuzzies? Should I buy bigger prey?

[reptilemom25]

Hello! Thank you, how do you test for humidity? I presume there is some sort of electronic means of doing this?

Also, I shave my head so I have no hair dryer LOL. Is there another way to get the feeder up to temp? Also, what do you think about the fuzzies? Should I buy bigger prey?

You need a hygrometer. Most reptile thermometers are thermometer hygrometer combos. Here is one option:

https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Digit...s%2C425&sr=8-9

Here is the cheaper thermostat:
https://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-Ger...s%2C147&sr=8-3

I would suggest getting these two things or similar ones ASAP.

I do think the fuzzies are way too small for that snake. Do you have a scale to take her weight? She should be eating prey that are 10-15% of her body weight.

I really think once you get her environment dialed in and let her settle undisturbed you will have better luck.

You can do the hot water that was talked about above, I was just giving another option.

[Jellybeans]

I SO agree about never moving your snake to a separate enclosure, box or whatever to feed. That's one of the dumbest ideas I've heard of for snake owners to do. Lol

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[indygunnerguy]

You need a hygrometer. Most reptile thermometers are thermometer hygrometer combos. Here is one option:

https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Digit...s%2C425&sr=8-9

Here is the cheaper thermostat:
https://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-Ger...s%2C147&sr=8-3

I would suggest getting these two things or similar ones ASAP.

I do think the fuzzies are way too small for that snake. Do you have a scale to take her weight? She should be eating prey that are 10-15% of her body weight.

I really think once you get her environment dialed in and let her settle undisturbed you will have better luck.

You can do the hot water that was talked about above, I was just giving another option.

Thanks! Yes, I have a scale but it is in lbs so it probably won't be good enough. So, let's say she/he doesn't eat again today when I get home. How long should I wait to try again? How long can they really go without eating?

[TechnoCheese]

I’ve had good luck with an ipower thermostat.
https://www.amazon.com/iPower-40-108...-1-spons&psc=1
I haven’t had any problems with it yet


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[reptilemom25]

Thanks! Yes, I have a scale but it is in lbs so it probably won't be good enough. So, let's say she/he doesn't eat again today when I get home. How long should I wait to try again? How long can they really go without eating?

Wait a week. I would say you can give it at least a few weeks before being concerned. A weight on the animal in grams would be helpful. Smaller snakes need other measures more quickly.

- - - Updated - - -

I’ve had good luck with an ipower thermostat.
https://www.amazon.com/iPower-40-108...-1-spons&psc=1
I believe it’s basically the jumpstart one, but half the price


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It's pretty close. I have used these, but I feel like the jump start does a little bit better job at being consistent.