Please Help, Me and My Baby Ball are Desperate

[JodanOrNoDan]

I've got a young male right now who did something similar to the bucket thing this week.

I usually crack tubs open enough to feed before I blow dry the rats to get the smell and heat them up, but this boy just popped out and snapped it right out of the tongs "cold" (aka room temp, about 75) before I could heat it at all.

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Yeah, that's cool. It is the kind of behavior you can mess with if you want. You have to be careful though that the rat is the the warmest thing in the vicinity or they can get confused and worst case go for your face. I think it is funny when they get that excited but I am pretty nimble for an old dude. My wife has gotten tagged a couple of times on her hands though because she doesn't always do the mental reset that even the most docile ball can get really excited when they smell rat.

[Toad37]

The bucket one? I'm going to shoot one now that it has become consistent. She did it once like a year ago on her own and I have been reinforcing the behavior ever since. This time a year though, she and most of my other girls are off food and super pregnant. First clutch of the year was laid last week by a very old female that had never laid for me before. I thought she was going to have six eggs tops. She gave me 11 so she kind of made up for her laziness over the last 3 years I have had her. Anyway maybe I will start to make some videos. I have been very hesitant to do so because many of the things I do are not conventional and I don't want to listen to people's "expert" opinions. I am not for the most part talking about people on here, just the youtube world in general. I am now kind of at a point though that I don't care if people don't agree. My snakes are healthy, have "character", and it is looking like I will be well over 200 eggs this year.

I love that attitude. It doesn't matter what's "conventional" as long as your animals are happy and healthy.

Back to you OP. From the pictures you posted your BP looks to be improving significantly! She still has some weight she needs to put on but your on the right track with her. You've come to the right place for good advice and I'm sorry the other forums talked down to you instead of tried to help. I agree that a thermostat is definitely needed but other than that just try to take in all the information and advice you can and use what works best for you and your BP. Good luck with everything and I expect to hear good news soon! She's beautiful btw!!

[pretends2bnormal]

The bucket one? I'm going to shoot one now that it has become consistent. She did it once like a year ago on her own and I have been reinforcing the behavior ever since. This time a year though, she and most of my other girls are off food and super pregnant. First clutch of the year was laid last week by a very old female that had never laid for me before. I thought she was going to have six eggs tops. She gave me 11 so she kind of made up for her laziness over the last 3 years I have had her. Anyway maybe I will start to make some videos. I have been very hesitant to do so because many of the things I do are not conventional and I don't want to listen to people's "expert" opinions. I am not for the most part talking about people on here, just the youtube world in general. I am now kind of at a point though that I don't care if people don't agree. My snakes are healthy, have "character", and it is looking like I will be well over 200 eggs this year.

Conventional or not, I'd love to see videos. If you get haters or jerk comments, just turn them off and ignore it. If nothing else, link us the videos on here!

I use pretty long tongs despite them being babies because once they smell rats, most of mine will strike at my face from 4 feet away anyway. No one lands a hit, but if I stuck my hand in I would bet most would not hesitate to try human. It means I have good eaters, so I'm happy. That one is the newest BP addition and his appetite matches my banana boy from last year who got to over 1,000g by about 14 months old.

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[Bogertophis]

I’ve been debating on whether or not to post on this forum because the community intimidates me a little. I’ve used this forum to research my snake’s issues and even used some of the tips and tricks I’ve found....

Fast forward now, in mid March I got a baby ball python from Petco. I really hope I don’t get any shame for this. When I posted about my baby on other sites, I was ridiculed and degraded for buying from a pet store. I’m not going to justify myself further than: when I saw her in her tank and she slithered towards me all cute with her lovely red eyes, I just fell in love and that was it....

I purchased her anyways. Again, please don’t shame me. I’ve had enough of that. I’m here for help...

....He wanted to rule out parasites so he got me some dewormer to administer to her...

I’m at a loss, though. I’ve tried different things...like braining the pinkies (ew, messy). I make sure they’re nice and warm for her. I give her time to eat naturally if she wants (normally around 30-45 minutes) before I decide to assist her. I always feed her at night. I tried boopin her on the nose lightly with the pinky several times to get her to strike but no dice. Now she appears to be afraid of the pinkies and jerks away from them. I just don’t know what else to do. It breaks my heart every time I have to assist her because obviously she doesn’t care to be manhandled like that.

And before anyone gets upset with me for assisting her, the vet said my baby was probably days from death from starvation and our main concern is getting her weight up. Even though we’ve dropped her feeding schedule down to once a week, he still wants me to assist her if she refuses. I really hate doing it but I know I have to to get her weight up....

After all this information, if you’re still reading, you’re a saint. I just want thoughts at this point. Tips, tricks, whatever you can offer as help for us. I just want her to be healthy and happy, she must have been so miserable in that store.

First off, It makes me sad that you were afraid to post here, afraid of being pounced on as happened elsewhere. There are downsides to buying from pet
stores, but at some point most of us have. Not all pet stores are bad, nor are all their personnel (we actually have a few members here that work in these places &
they do everything in their power...) but that's water under the bridge...this is your snake now, & you have a great attitude going forward & putting her first.

You are among snake-lovers here...we want to help you to help your snake & we don't give up unless you do...& maybe not even then.

As you guessed, de-worming does increase a snake's appetite, & when a snake is underweight, or losing weight, it's a good thing to try.

I'm not a fan of assist-feeding as it goes against a snake's natural behavior...how can they not come to fear the prey which not only 'surrenders' to them but pretty
much jumps down their throat? For any snake that is "days from death by starvation" I personally tube-feed a liquid diet (thinned Gerber's chicken baby food) but
had your vet tried that, she may have regurgitated it by the time you got her home- it's best done at home where the snake isn't bounced around in a car & is handled
very minimally. Tube feeding is never your first option- it's not that hard & gives readily digestible nutrition that often perks up a snake's appetite after only 1 or 2
times (think of it like the I.V. a sick human gets in the hospital...without which they never have the energy to get well) without giving the snake a negative association
with the prey they're supposed to be eating...but it requires some specific instructions & a few specific items. We can talk more about it later...first, you need to try
live (eyes-closed) prey...it's what snakes evolved eating & it's by far the best option.

Most snakes ARE miserable in pet stores...you are so lucky she doesn't have mites, at least, but conditions are rarely very good in stores. Usually the humidity is too
low, they are over or under-heated & cannot thermo-regulate, & they have a lack of privacy, plus they are handled too much because they are there to be sold...
so let's get this girl healthy!

[gunkle]

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....I do keep them warm. I defrost them in warm water and periodically take them away to warm them in my hands when they've been there for a while. But it makes sense that even if I did that, if she doesn't register them as food or they're too small for her heat pits to sense that she still wouldn't strike......

So I wonder if you are maybe getting too much of your sent on the food item by warming it in your hands. Not sure I would want the little one to associate my sent with food. I could be wrong though as I am getting back into snakes after a decade off. It is commonly recommended to use a hair dryer to warm up pray items before offering. I have a 6 month old that is only a few weeks with us that acts afraid of the rats and has only struck out once and I think it was a defensive strike and not a food strike. I leave it on a fake leaf after doing the zombie dance for a minute and then a quick re-heat with hair dryer in front of his hide about 6 inches. So far he has eaten 2 within an hour or so after we leave with all lights off.

[Zincubus]

This method WORKS if done properly ...
I wait until evening as they're nocturnal of course then thaw naturally in the snake room , sometimes on a heatmat and sometimes put the rodent/s in a sealed plastic bag and dunk in really warm water ( if I'm short of tirme) . A couple of mine are super sensitive and won't take anything dunked in water - presumably they don't smell mousy enough ?

So then when I'm due to feed , I make sure the viv is unlocked and there's some card on top of the substrate to minimise bark ingestion ... Then I get the mouse/rat by the tail in some tongs and give the rodents head / top half a 10 to 15 second blast with the hairdryer ( hottest setting ) .... then IMMEDIATELY dangle it in front of the snake . They're usually ready and waiting .... Mine all now prefer to strike from inside their hides so I dangle it in front of the entrance for about 15 seconds but no longer as it cools down quickly , if there's a hint of interest such as head movement or tongue flicking then that gives me confidence and I repeat the procedure .... Hot blast and immediately offer ..... repeat as often as it takes ... If there is simply no interest though , either it's going into shed or not hungry ( couple of mine eat every two weeks even though I offer every week just in case



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[Bogertophis]

So I wonder if you are maybe getting too much of your sent on the food item by warming it in your hands. Not sure I would want the little one to associate my sent with food. I could be wrong though as I am getting back into snakes after a decade off. It is commonly recommended to use a hair dryer to warm up pray items before offering. I have a 6 month old that is only a few weeks with us that acts afraid of the rats and has only struck out once and I think it was a defensive strike and not a food strike. I leave it on a fake leaf after doing the zombie dance for a minute and then a quick re-heat with hair dryer in front of his hide about 6 inches. So far he has eaten 2 within an hour or so after we leave with all lights off.

Good catch, gunkle! Many snakes DO notice* though I'm not sure that BPs will or not. Still, it's best to avoid any scent confusion. If anything, it won't likely teach a
BP to consider you as dinner...it will only make them refuse the rodent because it smells "wrong". Blow-dryer is a much better way to heat up rodents.

*I had a rat snake that I could hand-feed, but she'd only take it if I held it between my thumb & forefinger, sticking out a little ways. If I had it on the flat palm of my
hand, she could smell it but she got too much of my scent also to take a chance, lol. You cannot depend on most snakes to be that careful- FYI that was a Trans Pecos,
a typically mellow snake from the desert southwest & one of my favorite kinds...they have excellent vision too.

[Cheesenugget]

I would add more clutter in your 20gallon long. And use smaller, identical hides. Those half logs are useless for shy snakes. I would not use the overhead light unless your cold side drops below 75-77 F. Keeping the tank dark and quiet helps which means covering 3 sides of your tank. You need A thermostat on that heat mat. You don't want to follow Petco's example of how tanks should be set up for any animal.

Actually, if I were you, I would ditch the tank and follow Deborah's sticky regarding how to get your snake to eat. Downsizing and making the enclosure feel small and crowded is key to helping it feel secure enough to eat. It worked for me and many others. Security is just as important as husbandry for ball pythons.

Live feeding helps tremendously. When my bp and my Dumerils boa refuse food, once they feel secure and husbandry is on point, a live mouse or rat is taken without hesitation. Transition to frozen later. Your priority is to get it to eat first.

[traveling_classicist]

Thank you all so much for all your advice. I'm really happy with how welcoming people have been here. I'm still digesting all of this wonderful information and starting to make a plan for the next week or so to see how she does. I won't be feeding her pinkies anymore after everything you all have said. I'll definitely get on top of a thermostat too, so thank you for your suggestions and that graphic is super helpful too. She's chilling out in her log right now though she really likes to wrap herself around this plastic plant and stick her head a little through the log. She really loves her plants so I may make another trip to the craft store to pick up a few more to clutter her tank up a bit.

A question I would like to ask, as it was touched on above. Do you all lay cardboard or something over the substrate to minimize them eating the substrate? I'm so worried she might get some stuck in her mouth and I really don't want to take her out to eat anymore. I'd much rather her feel safe enough in her tank to eat.

Again, everyone has been so helpful so thank you so much!

[Bogertophis]

...
A question I would like to ask, as it was touched on above. Do you all lay cardboard or something over the substrate to minimize them eating the substrate? I'm so worried she might get some stuck in her mouth and I really don't want to take her out to eat anymore. I'd much rather her feel safe enough in her tank to eat....

Yes, for sure. It can be a box lid, a plastic plate, whatever...just not cloth or paper towels (their teeth can catch & pull it in along with food swallowed).

I now keep snakes other than BPs, & on safer substrate*, plus most of my snakes eat right from tongs...but when I kept BPs & for any that this concern applies to,
yes I do the same thing. (*what I use for my colubrids isn't recommended for BPs)

Zincubus touched on this (in above post)- BPs are ambush hunters, they feel safer lying in wait (peeking out from a hide) so that's what you want to look for
before you offer food. Feed in evening...and don't offer too often (more than once a week usually stresses them more, & into not eating)

Feeding live fuzzies (aka crawlers): one good way to do this for shy snakes is to leave it overnight (lights out) in a heavy tip-proof flat bottomed bowl,
and the snake will follow it's scent & hopefully pounce on it when it finally feels safe & unwatched. Bowls that work well are about 3" deep, so the prey
cannot escape, & the snake can easily reach in. Those heavy ceramic pet bowls work well for this.