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  1. #11
    Registered User Alter-Echo's Avatar
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    Nothing has changed... spiders have been the same since they came out in the 90s, the only thing that has changed is the creation of social media and an insatiable thirst for drama. Serious breeders won't care about this and most keepers who know better won't either. The only ones to make a big deal out of are the YouTube sheeple who feel it's the trendy thing to do.

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  3. #12
    Telling it like it is! Deborah's Avatar
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    it's pretty likely that soon we'll be seeing spiders band from reptile expos in the US but I'm not an expert so I'm wondering what you guys think.
    And who would decide that or push that? Animal activists with some more fake science that have tried to ban reptile ownership in general for years?

    Not gonna happen the reptile industries have been fighting those people for YEARS and they have not won, they could not care less about banning 1 mutation of 1 species it's all or nothing for them so I pretty sure that Spiders are safe.

    Or would show promoters try to ban them? Well good luck with that any that, they would loose vendors and visitors and someone would come along and do a show where spiders are allowed because there is competition and choices in shows in the US unlike in the UK where there are a limited amount of shows.

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  5. #13
    in evinco persecutus dr del's Avatar
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    Re: Regarding spiders

    Quote Originally Posted by E-squirrel View Post
    Curious about what people are thinking or doing given the current climate around spiders. Imo stigma towards them is exaggerated to the nth degree and based on few cases of bad wobble which is probably due to bad husbandry. I'm not so interested in the debate given that I have and have seen healthy spiders living fine lives. So my question is: how do you see the market value of spiders being affected in the next few years and what do you think breeders are going to do about it?
    I think given the laws that have been put in place in the UK and the tendency for the rest of the world to follow with Western ideas and tendencies it's pretty likely that soon we'll be seeing spiders band from reptile expos in the US but I'm not an expert so I'm wondering what you guys think.
    There are no laws - just one reptile/amphibian/animal group ( the IHS ) who decided they didn't want to have any sold at their own expos. You can still buy/trade/sell them at all the other reptile expos. I disagree with their chosen stance even though I do not own any spiders or spider combos.


    dr del
    Derek

    7 adult Royals (2.5), 1.0 COS Pastel, 1.0 Enchi, 1.1 Lesser platty Royal python, 1.1 Black pastel Royal python, 0.1 Blue eyed leucistic ( Super lesser), 0.1 Piebald Royal python, 1.0 Sinaloan milk snake 1.0 crested gecko and 1 bad case of ETS. no wife, no surprise.

  6. #14
    Registered User Lusiphera's Avatar
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    Re: Regarding spiders

    A few cases due to bad husbandry? Ouch. I think the bad cases are due more to breeders who care more about money than animals. In my experience the higher end better quality breeders always have spiders with less wobble than your neighborhood breeder. My spider is a rescue. Her wobble isnít terrible but her balance is absolutely horrific. Her husbandry is fine, by the way. I think thereís absolutely more than a few bad cases of wobble and blaming husbandry doesnít make much sense. Iím sure poor husbandry could agitate a wobble but the wobble has to be there to begin with.

    Also, there are no laws banning spiders. IHS banned the sale of spiders at their shows. Thatís it.


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  7. #15
    Registered User reptilemom25's Avatar
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    Re: Regarding spiders

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusiphera View Post
    A few cases due to bad husbandry? Ouch. I think the bad cases are due more to breeders who care more about money than animals. In my experience the higher end better quality breeders always have spiders with less wobble than your neighborhood breeder. My spider is a rescue. Her wobble isnít terrible but her balance is absolutely horrific. Her husbandry is fine, by the way. I think thereís absolutely more than a few bad cases of wobble and blaming husbandry doesnít make much sense. Iím sure poor husbandry could agitate a wobble but the wobble has to be there to begin with.

    Also, there are no laws banning spiders. IHS banned the sale of spiders at their shows. Thatís it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Honestly, I think there is a strong case for husbandry being a large contributing factor to the severity of the wobble, particularly husbandry in a young, developing snake. Your husbandry for your rescue may be spot on, but there is a reason it needed to be rescued in the first place. I don't like anecdotal evidence as an argument, but many of the severe wobbles I see shown on the channels of those pushing the ban are rescues. Who knows what conditions they were kept in as they were growing and developing. It's simply common sense that the conditions under which a growing and developing animal are kept have an impact on the outcome of that growth and development, particularly in the case of one with this kind of neurological condition. Environment, particularly that one you grew up in, can absolutely effect the expression of such a condition. We know that to be true in humans.

    I do think that there is a possibility that breeding has something to do with it, but most of the knowledgeable breeders who have been breeding spiders for a long time say that it is definitely hard to predict severity of wobble, a parent with an almost nonexistent wobble will produce offspring with a severe one and ivce versa. I think the difference is that responsible breeders will not offer an animal with a wobble that severe for sale.
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  9. #16
    BPnet Veteran JodanOrNoDan's Avatar
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    The reality of the wobble is if it is a spider it wobbles. It is most apparent when the animal is under stress. The more excited or agitated an animal gets, the more it wobbles. I can get any spider to display a bad wobble and get it to stop. Comfortable animals rarely display anything noticeable other than to people who know what to look for.
    Honest, I only need one more ...

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