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  1. #1
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    Regarding spiders

    Curious about what people are thinking or doing given the current climate around spiders. Imo stigma towards them is exaggerated to the nth degree and based on few cases of bad wobble which is probably due to bad husbandry. I'm not so interested in the debate given that I have and have seen healthy spiders living fine lives. So my question is: how do you see the market value of spiders being affected in the next few years and what do you think breeders are going to do about it?
    I think given the laws that have been put in place in the UK and the tendency for the rest of the world to follow with Western ideas and tendencies it's pretty likely that soon we'll be seeing spiders band from reptile expos in the US but I'm not an expert so I'm wondering what you guys think.

  2. #2
    BPnet Veteran JRLongton's Avatar
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    I'm hoping the whole controversy just blows over. That would be best for the hobby and all involved, snakes included and principally of course.
    \m/

  3. #3
    Registered User MarkL1561's Avatar
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    Re: Regarding spiders

    I have a bumblebee that Iíve had for years. He doesnít display a wobble 99% of the time. Iíve only seen him act a little differently when he missed a strike. Also out of all the years Iíve had him heís missed a strike maybe twice. Imo the hate is overly exaggerated.


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  4. #4
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    Re: Regarding spiders

    That would be ideal but I don't see it going that way. spider is one of my favorite morphs and the things that can be done with all the various bees are very interesting to me. I really hope it blows over but given people's misinformation and dramatization of the facts it's hurting the market for them.

  5. #5
    BPnet Veteran Ax01's Avatar
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    IMO it won't blow but Spiders aren't going anywhere. you cannot make an example out of Spiders w/o other morphs w/ deformities or even other species. they're popular, beautiful, there's a market and there's no issue w/ most.
    ^ Look! My new avatar!!

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    Re: Regarding spiders

    My opinion is breeding any animal just for how looks with known defects should be stopped and the entire line culled.


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  8. #7
    Registered User MarkL1561's Avatar
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    Re: Regarding spiders

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiekerk View Post
    My opinion is breeding any animal just for how looks with known defects should be stopped and the entire line culled.


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    Well thatíd be a LOT of animals and not only reptiles. Also, you can get genetic defects in any breeding. Thereís a lot that can go wrong, biology can be messy. Iím sure other people on here that actually own spider morphs can attest that their animals are perfectly healthy. All these YouTube personas use animals with exaggerated issues in order to get clicks and fall in line. If your viewpoint differs from the current accepted one, even if the accepted one is misinformed, youíre persecuted. Itís purely in the interest of their channel that they jump on the bandwagon. Iíd recommend Clintís Reptiles video on spiders. Itís a little better with actually explaining whatís going on.


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  10. #8
    Registered User reptilemom25's Avatar
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    Re: Regarding spiders

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkL1561 View Post
    Well thatíd be a LOT of animals and not only reptiles. Also, you can get genetic defects in any breeding. Thereís a lot that can go wrong, biology can be messy. Iím sure other people on here that actually own spider morphs can attest that their animals are perfectly healthy. All these YouTube personas use animals with exaggerated issues in order to get clicks and fall in line. If your viewpoint differs from the current accepted one, even if the accepted one is misinformed, youíre persecuted. Itís purely in the interest of their channel that they jump on the bandwagon. Iíd recommend Clintís Reptiles video on spiders. Itís a little better with actually explaining whatís going on.


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    ITA with this. I have wanted something with spider in it for a long time. I did a LOT of research on spiders and spider wobble before deciding to purchase one. I think a LOT of what is going on now is essentially click bait. Genetics in any species is not as cut and dried as some would have us think. Gene expression is complex, and influenced by so many factors. There are several morphs of ball pythons that can and do carry less desirable genetic traits with their color expression, but that is true of any species we choose to selectively breed. Large breed dogs often have hip issues. Certain breed of horses are more prone to colic. The list goes on.

    I have watched many hours of footage on spiders, and read what a lot of experienced breeders have to say. From what I have seen, in the vast majority of cases the wobble doesn't interfere with quality of life, so I don't see it as an issue. There are rare cases where it does, but how many other pairing throw babies that have to be euthanized for some kind of birth defect, even when it isn't a "risky" gene? Do spiders really throw that many more? From what I have seen I don't think so.
    0.1 Normal ball python Astrid
    1.0 banana bumblebee
    1.0 San Mattais rosy boa
    1.0 bearded dragon Gimli
    1.0 crested gecko Mr. Lizard

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  12. #9
    Registered User MarkL1561's Avatar
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    Re: Regarding spiders

    Quote Originally Posted by reptilemom25 View Post
    ITA with this. I have wanted something with spider in it for a long time. I did a LOT of research on spiders and spider wobble before deciding to purchase one. I think a LOT of what is going on now is essentially click bait. Genetics in any species is not as cut and dried as some would have us think. Gene expression is complex, and influenced by so many factors. There are several morphs of ball pythons that can and do carry less desirable genetic traits with their color expression, but that is true of any species we choose to selectively breed. Large breed dogs often have hip issues. Certain breed of horses are more prone to colic. The list goes on.

    I have watched many hours of footage on spiders, and read what a lot of experienced breeders have to say. From what I have seen, in the vast majority of cases the wobble doesn't interfere with quality of life, so I don't see it as an issue. There are rare cases where it does, but how many other pairing throw babies that have to be euthanized for some kind of birth defect, even when it isn't a "risky" gene? Do spiders really throw that many more? From what I have seen I don't think so.
    Yeah I just have a hard time believing all the negative press when Iíve had my bumblebee for years with pretty much no symptoms. He has only displayed a slight wobble when he misses a strike which has only happened maybe twice the entire time Iíve had him. Heís perfectly happy and healthy so from my personal experience I donít see a major issue. I think the problem is worse with snakes under bad husbandry and/or poor breeding practices. Any snake can come out with severe genetic defects and breeders should definitely refrain from breeding those individuals. Iím confident that through selective breeding we can minimize issues. If people donít want to buy spiders thatís perfectly fine but donít go around saying they should be killed Hitler style. Also, itíd be nice if the community would stop attacking owners and breeders of spiders like theyíre the antichrist or something.


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  14. #10
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    Re: Regarding spiders

    While I agree with the sentiment you put forth and own a stinger bee myself, I'm more curious about the future of the market. Misguided or not. It seems to me that as a large business owner selling balls it would be wise to cut out the only gene that people widely know as controversial. If only because with or without it you'll still sell bananas, lessers, pastels, pins, etc.. But with it you'll have idiots harping at you and possibly convincing people you breed defective animals out of cruel indifference.
    This might be a worst case scenario point of view but I just want to frame the post around this. I'm curious about the future of the gene and those who DO chose to breed them. Or if there is one.
    I mean to say that I want info and not the classical spider ethics debate. We're getting lost in the sauce here, lol.

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